Speakers
Greg McKeown, Shannon Doherty
Greg McKeown
My guest today is Shannon Doherty. She’s the founder of At Home WEith Shannon. She’s the mother of four. So this is the real deal. She has an audience of over a million people who, when she’s best known now for her social media, mom hacks, recipes, crafts, DIY fun. Queen of mom hacks, let’s put it that way. She’s responsible for like a series of viral videos that entertain and educate and also surprise your own children. But it’s fun for her as well. She’s also the owner of Coco and Lola. It’s a lifestyle brand, with a whole series of boutiques in Darien Connecticut. Prior to that she was the Director of Real Estate acquisitions at Calpheon fund management in New York. So this is a unusual career shift. She earned her BS in finance and marketing from Boston College juris doctorate from New York law school. You can find Shannon on TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, Snapchat, and Amazon live at At Home With Shannon. On LinkedIn at Shannon Doherty, by email athomewithshannon@additive.com Shannon, welcome to the What’s Essential podcast.
Shannon Doherty
Greg, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here today. I am a huge fan of what you’ve written and about the whole concept and idea behind Essentialism and it’s definitely something that I need to practice more in my own life so I’m very excited to learn your wisdom today
Greg McKeown
Well, that’s such a nice way to start this. Can you give us just sort of, I mean, I gave you sort of top level bio, but a bit of your story. How did you get here, start from the beginning, reader’s digest version?
Shannon Doherty
You know, to get ready for today’s podcast, actually listened to your first podcast with your wife and kind of your history of getting to where you are. And as you were talking, as your wife was talking about how you always try to you always try to do too much. And if someone challenges you, you want to do more. I really resonated with that. Because if you look at my career path and history, I’m kind of that type of person. That always if you challenge me, I think, Oh, I can do it. Or I’m always kind of doing a little bit more than I should. So my history is when I was in college, I went to Boston College, I actually interned for the New England Patriots. Yeah, which was a very fun job. I was doing finance and marketing minor in faith, peace and justice. And I had this opportunity to interview for to intern with the Patriots. So I took that job that left me after college actually working for the Rangers and Knicks in New York City. So that was really fun, I thought I wanted to do sports marketing or something along those lines. And while I was in the city, a couple of my friends have taken financial jobs, and they were making lots more money. So although I had a passion for sports at the time, I decided to switch. And that’s how I got into the hedge fund space. And while I was working, I went to law school at night. My mom was a lawyer, and I know you actually went to law school as well, correct?
Greg McKeown
I didn’t manage to make one year before I quit teaching writing, but there is there is a portion of my story that involves law, yes.
Shannon Doherty
A little portion, right. Well, maybe for the same reasons as you I don’t know but I didn’t want to be a career lawyer. But I thought it was going to help me from seeing how my mom is attorney kind of think of the world differently. And I wanted to just learn more, which I think kind of explains me always wanting to do one thing more than I’m doing but so I went to law school, graduated and decided that I liked what I was doing more in finance so I stayed there. The firm started doing real estate so I got my real estate license just as a fun side on and then I got married, started having my children and my husband and I started doing a few Real Estate Investments where we will go for the summer and Watch Hill. That’s how I started my store Coco and Lala because we found a great real estate opportunity. As I was interviewing stores I thought hey, maybe I could have my own store. So we started Coco and Lala which is a children in women’s brand. During the pandemic, we ran a really great video campaign around spread love, not germs, which for my children, were really missing their grandparents. So I did a T shirt spread love, not germs. And for every shirt we sold, we donated a push it up portion to No Kid Hungry, and I really helped our community stay connected. And at that point, I realized video content was really beneficial. And I jumped on the whole TikTok trend. And I started, just, you know, bringing people into our everyday lives and letting them get a glimpse of what it was like to be a mom and really giving that connection during a pandemic when people were missing it the most. And what I found people really were resonating with most was things that make their life easier, which is I know the whole point of essentialism. But the whole mom has been life hacks and just little tricks that would make life so much easier. So here I am.
Greg McKeown
Well, it’s particularly the subject of my new book, effortless, right? Yep, literally all about trying to make today and tomorrow a little easier. So we can have great results, but without burning out. So I’m going to give you a challenge here. Top Five hacks from making life a little easier?
Shannon Doherty
Making life a little easier?
Greg McKeown
Just think about the things that people have most responded to?
Shannon Doherty
I would say in general, there’s kind of this overarching theme of, there’s two different types of hacks, I do life hacks and mom hacks. And when it comes to mom hacks, I think the overarching theme of hacks that resonate the best are things that help your children gain a little bit more independence, so that you as a parent, can cut that time down of tasks that you’re doing and makes life more efficient. So there was a self-serve fridge I did where, you know, yes, in the mornings, moms spend a little bit more time cutting the vegetables and carrots and cheese and putting them in the side container of the fridge. But then when your children need snacks all day, rather than asking mom to get them, they can open them and independently make the decision on their own to eat healthy snacks. So that was probably one of my top most viral I had. There was a little hack I did using a strainer, where every I said everyone’s been doing this wrong their whole life, when normally you would pour your boiling water right into your strainer. It’s hard to imagine if you don’t see the picture, but instead you put the strainer in your pot and then pour them simultaneously. It’s a little quick step, but it makes it so much easier. So that was another life hack that did really well. I did a shopping cart hack where you have kids so you might understand this. But if you’re going grocery shopping as a mom, carrying your kids into the car is you know, sometimes my kids are super heavy, and it’s a lot to get them over and into that basket of the cart. So I did this hack where you just swipe up the front of the car kind of swings open and the kids climbing themselves. And everyone went crazy about that. Because no one it was so basic, but no one had ever thought of it and you see it and you’re just like, this is so smart, and so easy. So that was another very viral hack I did. If your kids don’t want to eat vegetables, instead put stickers on them of their favorite characters. So if your kids like Paw Patrol, or Disney Channel’s put the sticker on your peppers, or bananas, or whatever, they don’t want it, and instantly, they’ll think they’re cool. That one did very well as well.
Oh, there was a fun life hack I did about cutting when you’re cutting cheese open, this one was really viral too. And when you go to close it like normally, you would take all the packaging off the cheese. But instead, if you keep the top part when you slice it open and just slice it back on, it’s hard to again conceptualize. But once again, the idea was just a little switch in your everyday life that you probably never thought of that’s so easy, but makes that point in time so much more effortless.
Greg McKeown
What all of those have in common is, is if you can just remove one tiny step within something that you’re doing and doing often then it does make life better. It doesn’t have to be grandiose to be relevant and useful. Okay, Shannon, next challenge isn’t mom hack, it’s life hacks. This is for anybody. What are five things that anyone can do to make their lives a little easier right now.
Shannon Doherty
So my life hacks tend to be based on like very, they’re not as bigger concepts. As far as little things that I find so little tricks like pitting a cherry right when you’re serving cherries, they could be a little messy to eat because there’s pits in the middle. So you just use the straw on a glass and push the pin through. So when you serve them, they’re already pitted so my life hacks tend to be a little bit like that. Air packing a cooler freeze your way now in a summer mode, right? So when you go to pack the cooler, rather than filling it with ice to the beach, you just grab your frozen water bottles out put them in your cooler and life is easier for the beach.
Greg McKeown
Yeah, I like all of them. The one about the water, I heard a great hack about this, which is if you’re gonna freeze water in a bottle, you put in half, like you fill up the water bottle to halfway and then you lay the bottle on its side. It freezes half of the bottle, now full of frozen water and the other half is empty. But there’s enough room the next morning that you can just fill the water up for the rest of the bottle. And then it doesn’t blow up the bottle and it doesn’t just have ice. You have to wait until it all melts. You just fill up the other side. That’s good life hack, isn’t it?
Shannon Doherty
Oh, I love that. I think I may be doing that on TikTok.
Greg McKeown
Yes, yes now I need to do a TikTok on the on the water ice McKeown solution. Yes. I love it, brand it now.
Shannon Doherty
Do you have a TikTok account?
Greg McKeown
I don’t have a TikTok account but I think I ought to.
Shannon Doherty
I also think a lot of your advice and things even would be well now we know you’re a life hacker. Also your advice and things people love that in the motivation
Greg McKeown
How long have you been on Tick Tock? One year? How many photos do you have now?
Shannon Doherty
I think I have like 1,050,000 as of now.
Greg McKeown
So you have got to be surprised by that yourself.
Shannon Doherty
We really, it really is such a shock it when we hit that million mark, it was a goal I had had for myself. And when we hit it, it kind of it took me a little bit to even like conceptualize what it meant. But it’s amazing. It’s really, it’s been an amazing experience.
Greg McKeown
Tell us tell us, like the big. What was the first thing you did, you got an account. And the first thing you put on that account was?
Shannon Doherty
My children and I in the kitchen. It was a quarantine trend going on. And it was a funny song. And it was my children. And I imagine pajamas in the kitchen banging pots and pans like on our heads crazy, get us out of this quarantine situation. So that was my first piece of tic toc content and it went viral. And I think it just went viral with a lot of moms that were in that same space with me at the time and children. And aesthetically It was pretty on the page. And we went from there. My page evolved for sure over time I in the beginning, I didn’t really know what to do with the app, I thought it was a lot of for younger generations. I’m a big Gary Vee fan also so I was listening to his page and he was talking about Tick Tock and I jumped on it. And I didn’t I didn’t even know if anyone would like what I was putting out there.
Greg McKeown
You want something you already said that I think is curious is really just, I just brought people into the life that I was living, you didn’t create some new life, or new persona, you just brought them into the world you already live in. Is that true?
Shannon Doherty
It’s true. You know, people ask me all the time, how do you create three or four videos a day and produce this content all like this, right? Because it’s a lot. And I think why I’m able to do it and if you really study my content, a lot of the stuff I produce is just, it’s happening. And I say to my kids, hold on, let me quickly edit that or film it. Or I’ll be living my everyday life and read something or read something and then I try it. And I actually want to do it a little differently. And so I just do it. I mean, it’s almost to a downfall because I’m not great at content planning as much as other people. And knowing what you’re going to produce or batch create content, but mine is so in the moment in my life that I tend to kind of cram it into that day, which there’s pros and cons.
Greg McKeown
Yeah, there’s an upside and downside. The upside is that you’re getting it done. And it’s authentic, and it’s happening. The downside is that you’re feeling a little crazy.
Shannon Doherty
Right, exactly.
Greg McKeown
What was what was then the next thing you did in the process, you had the first video go viral, which means what how many people watch that first video?
Shannon Doherty
I think I want to say about 400,000 views over time, which is a lot of views on TikTok, you know, and then I started doing some trends with my kids just voiceovers are funny trends going on. It was a lot of quarantine content at the time.
Greg McKeown
At home, playing on the memes that we’re going on already.
Shannon Doherty
Exactly, yep. And I really started to fill my page at that time. And then, you know, I looked at it also as a business and where we wanted to go with it and what people were looking at and started realizing that people really shareable content and content that they want to share with friends or they want to comment on was the key to success and like we said something that makes like a little bit more effortless, is positive and makes people happy when they watch it, which I think has been the secret to our success like helping people but also leaving them with a little sense of happiness.
Greg McKeown
Something practical, like tiny, practical, doable, but also with a spirit. Of fun and uplifting the same in the same moment.
Shannon Doherty
Yep, exactly
Greg McKeown
Give me an example of something that you thought was going to work that didn’t work? When you thought, hey, people are going to like this. They’re going to resonate with this, but actually they didn’t they didn’t respond.
Shannon Doherty
I’ve had some, I would say I’m trying to think of a most recent one that did not do well. I posted, you know, it wasn’t a major flop, but I posted about some Fourth of July hacks and one was making outdoor s’mores for my kids. I thought it was gonna go totally viral and it didn’t I don’t know why. But it didn’t do that well. So I tried again. I mean, I think that’s the biggest thing when even if videos flop I just keep trying.
Greg McKeown
It never ceases to amaze me what actually interests and grabs humans attention.
Shannon Doherty
Right.
Greg McKeown
And even after spending a lot of time trying to understand what people want and what they’re interested in how small things can suddenly take off. How other things you think will take off don’t. It’s a very curious and sort of ongoing mystery.
Shannon Doherty
I almost think that that is what my job has turned into to a point. I mean, I think that I constantly am thinking about that. And it really does amaze me like. Overall, I’ve learned this now because I post on different platforms as well. I really think it’s human behavior because the video that goes viral on TikTok, like the shopping cart I told you about also goes viral when I posted on Instagram or YouTube or Snapchat, where the video that flops on TikTok most likely will flop on the other channels as well. So you always hear creators talking about algorithms, when I think in reality, it’s just better understanding human behavior and what they like and don’t like.
Greg McKeown
How do you better understand human behavior?
Shannon Doherty
It’s a good question. You know, I’ve been trying to better understand my own behavior and what I like and dislike, and then from there, try to create my content around it. And just kind of studying how people react to my videos and what triggers them to share it or comment but showing my videos to my family, but I feel like the first place is better understanding my own likes and dislikes and what content.
Greg McKeown
Yeah. Yeah, I think I think there is something significant about that. Whether it’s TikTok videos or any attempt to influence others, is, you know, self-understanding as the first step of understanding. Knowing yourself, being able to stand apart from yourself and look at yourself, right, you’ve got self-awareness does seem to be sort of step one in understanding, greater human influence. Step two, in the process seems to be what you just described, is now you launch it, you try it, you put it out there, you see what somebody else’s reaction is, you have to have, let’s say, the courage to be rubbish. Because if you don’t, if you don’t put it out, you can’t learn about it. Am I understanding that step two, right?
Shannon Doherty
You know, I think the biggest thing I’ve learned is not to let failures or negativity bring you down and not to be scared of other people’s opinions and just to continue producing and doing what you like to do. And just keep moving forward. I think it’s really easy when you’re in a type of field that you’re putting yourself out there on a daily basis to be graded on likes or dislikes or comments or how people respond to you. It’s really easy to give up in a scenario like that probably. I think it’s harder than any other job that I’ve been in because normally you don’t have the daily you know, in your face immediate yes or no, we like it. So you’re getting graded on the daily right? So, and people are candid. So I think that just staying positive and continue to create and not letting I guess failures even though I hate to use that word stop you from progressing and keeping going. I think that’s like a really important part of the process.
Greg McKeown
I remember Seinfeld talking about this about one of the things about comedy is that you get instant feedback. You know, you, you are either funny, or you’re not funny, and they will tell you through their laughter. So it’s not like, you know, wait for performance evaluation, six months down the line or whatever. It’s like, instant right here right now. And that’s what makes it potentially brutal. Is well, if you say something, it’s not funny, okay. Now, you know, but the advantage is if you are you are and you and, you know, it’s proven right there, too. But it seems to me the work of being an influencer is actually similar to that, because the feedback is so instant.
Shannon Doherty
it’s so true. I think it’s exactly spot on. And I think having that overall confidence in yourself and ability to keep moving forward is key in the whole process. I guess that’s in life, but.
Greg McKeown
What’s your goal with all of this? You will have a business down the road but you find yourself at an interesting inflection point, as you hit past a million followers on TikTok alone. Have you reaching that sort of point in your journey, changed what you want to achieve next?
Shannon Doherty
I think so, I feel like my journey is always constantly changing. When I initially started the app, you know, it was really just a way for me to connect with other moms, and my children and I were having fun doing it together. I liked helping people, I’ve always liked helping people. So getting it was an easy way to do it, and involve my children in my work, which I really value spending time with them. So having that togetherness was really important to me and then as we started to gain more of a following I was, you know, like you saying your books, figure out what’s making me happy and what we’re doing. And it really is continuing to help other people and build this community. And so, as we grow our brand, it’s just making sure we stay true to our values and continue inspiring people and helping moms and do better and teach my children you know, how they can influence the world and inspire others and just do greater good for people. I mean, that’s definitely been the shift, we, when we reached a million, we really understood our impact more and that we could make, you know, we could do things to make the world a better place. And that’s kind of where our shift and focus is going now.
Greg McKeown
TS Eliot wrote what, what do we live for, if not to make life? less difficult for each other? I love that. I think that’s the spirit of what you’re saying. What’s one question you hoped I wouldn’t ask?
Shannon Doherty
I was listening to many of your podcasts before I got on. And there was, it’s funny, because it was more just based on questions. I’ve heard you ask people before and so I thought maybe it’s gonna ask me those. I hope he doesn’t. And there was one when you were you were interviewing Maria Shriver. I don’t remember exactly how you phrased the question, but it was what something that she, I think it was, what is she?
Greg McKeown
I remember the question.
Shannon Doherty
Okay, well, I wish you wouldn’t ask me.
Greg McKeown
Well, your nightmare is about to come true. The question I asked her now is what is something essential, very important for you that you’re under investing in? First answer first thought.
Shannon Doherty
And I had time to reflect and I still didn’t have a very good answer.
Greg McKeown
That’s just the way it doesn’t have to be good. There’s no good or not, there’s no judgment just what’s the first answer to that question?
Shannon Doherty
I know, you know, it was funny because I do have an answer but because I did things similar to her you know, it was more time for things that I do for myself because I really don’t have those. I don’t really do anything for myself. If you know me, I’m working or I’m with my kids and my husband and spending time with my kids and my husband is obviously what fulfills me in my free time but it’s not like Shannon goes and plays tennis with her girlfriends or reads tons of books. But then your next question to her was, what would that be? And I think that that was even more challenging to me, because I don’t know what that would be, which is great. I don’t know if those things that I do for myself fulfill me. So that’s why it was an interesting question.
Greg McKeown
Well, what I just heard you say is that is that you’re not actually sure if spending time with yourself, on your own away from other things, is essential. So that’s, that’s really the first question is you go, when I hear in you is like, maybe I feel like I ought to say
Shannon Doherty
Yes, exactly. That’s it.
Greg McKeown
I’ve been told that’s what you’re supposed to want. But I’m not sure if I do want it.
Shannon Doherty
Right. I guess I’ve never really questioned to myself until I was listening to that podcast like, Yeah, I don’t know. I guess, maybe that’s not a bad thing. But I’ve never really thought about it.
Greg McKeown
But you’re not. I mean, one of the things you’re saying and I think this is interesting, because you’re saying but I’m not unhappy.
Shannon Doherty
Yeah, that’s my that’s why it was like, I was trying to rationalize it in my head because I was like, I could say to you that I want more time to go for hikes or by myself, but I’m not happy doing those things so.
Greg McKeown
I like being with my children. I like being with my husband, and I like doing this work. And I’m not, I’m not. I don’t feel like I’m missing something. And I don’t feel like I’m missing out on something. And just because other people do or other people want that doesn’t mean I need to want that. But then there’s kind of a question mark at the end. Is that okay? That’s what I yeah, I think you summed it up perfectly.
When you hear all that coming back to you, what further thoughts do you have on it?
Shannon Doherty
It gives me a confidence in that, understanding that that’s fine and being able to realize that, you know, continuing to do what makes me happy and it’s spending time with my family and has been working and being able to balance those two things. That’s what makes me happy. So I should continue to do it. Not try to force things that aren’t going to fulfill me.
Greg McKeown
Yeah, to not pick up other people’s mantras, expectations, wants and so on. I had, I just interviewed somebody who’s written a book called wanting. And he, he introduced us to the idea of mimetic desire. A bit of a mouthful, but the idea of mimetic desire is that many of us want things because we believe that other people want that thing, right. So it’s not even based on whether other people do want something or not. It’s just based on the idea that we believe other people want something, right. And so it’s quite a, it’s quite a burden, to live with mimetic desire, because you can just keep adding and adding and adding, and in fact, you could pursue be pursuing things that you don’t want and in fact, other people don’t want. And so it’s a real oddity, if you don’t pay attention to look, do I actually want this? Is this the right thing? Is this what’s making me and the people around me happy? These to me seem like better question. Yeah. Then, you know, do I do I do other people seem to want this thing?
Shannon Doherty
They love that. It’s honestly, as you’re saying that too, it made me think of even when we were talking about the process of content, creating in me like figuring out first what I like, rather than just producing content that I think other people will like, understanding more what I actually like, and then people will like it, I think it kind of all ties in.
Greg McKeown
I think it has something to do with this. I think it has to do with first genuinely being in service of others. Yeah, right. That you really are saying, This is not about me. I really Want to be useful to you? So that’s like, That’s number one. And then I think step two, is to recognize that that which is most personal is most universal, right? So that if you if you want to be in service to other people, one of the ways to learn is to be vulnerable and open and honest about what, what am I genuinely drawn to be honest about that and say, Okay, well, then I’m going to create content that I think, you know, because I like it, other people will like it, right. And so somehow that is different. It reminds me of the, the idea that simplicity on this side of complexity is worth nothing but simplicity on that side, the far side of complexity is with everything.
What I want on this side of service is not worth anything. But what I would want on the other side of service is worth a great deal.
Shannon Doherty
I love that. It’s hard to get there but it makes total sense once you’re there.
Greg McKeown
Give us your final thoughts. What haven’t we covered that you would love to put out there?
Shannon Doherty
I love speaking with you. I feel like it’s very therapeutic. I need weekly calls with you to keep me in check. That will be what I do in my free time. I have weekly weekly motivational calls with Greg.
Greg McKeown
Weekly essentialist check-ins
Shannon Doherty
Weekly essentialist check-ins. That’s the new Shannon free time. No, I really I love chatting with you and I love everything that you speak about and really the philosophies I think, you know, creative people and entrepreneurs in general can tend to get in their own head a lot and spin their wheels so the daily check and reminder of things that are essential or that make your life a little bit easier is just really important. And it’s great to kind of really get your thought process out about it. I love what you’re doing.
Greg McKeown
The combination of the two things you just said, this is exactly what, what. What I hope for people is to be able to focus on what’s essential, to keep coming back to that every day every week, but also, how can I make the essential things a little easier, so that they become the default path of our lives. If we can create systems that make it easier to do what, what’s essential, then we do them consistently, and gain all the cumulative advantage of being able to do them over time. Shannon, it’s been a real pleasure to have you on the What’s Essential podcast. Thank you for being here and sharing your unique service to us and and to now to millions strong.
Shannon Doherty
Thank you for having me.
