17. Jay Shetty on Thinking Like a Monk

Speakers

Greg McKeown, Jay Shetty

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Transcript

Greg McKeown 

Dear Essentialists, I’m always delighted to share episodes with you conversations that I’m having with people that are making a difference in the world in one way or another. Today is a delight. It’s Jay Shetty, is just come out with a book Think Like a Monk, if you haven’t heard of it yet you will. Jay is a fellow Londoner who’s also made his way to LA, so our lives are in some sort of cosmic alignment. It’s been such a pleasure to get to know Jay, first on his podcast, On Purpose, which that episode will also launch today. So you can see the first part there. And then listen to the second part here. When I was on his podcast, I did the slightly irreverent thing of turning the tables and asking him questions to identify something that was essential that he’s under investing in. And here we get to see how he’s done. So even though the episodes launch on the same day. They actually happened about a week apart. And we’ll see whether he fulfilled what he committed to do, and you’ll get to enjoy that. But all the way through this episode, the theme is to train your mind for purpose every day. How do we do that? What are the challenges that take us away from doing that? What are the mental distractions, the digital distractions, but also the emotional distractions that keep us from focusing on what’s important now? And I welcome you to this conversation with him. 

Greg McKeown   

Jay Shetty It is so wonderful to have you on the show the monk who is enlightening the world. A person who has reached I don’t think is exaggerating now billions of people on a mission to reach even more, help people, not just to be entertained or educated, but enlightened out with an amazing new book, think like a monk. And here for this episode to help us all to train our minds for purpose. Jay, welcome to the Essentialism podcast. 

Jay Shetty   

Thanks, Greg. It’s great to be here. I’m glad we’re doing it. 

Greg McKeown   

I’m so looking forward to this this personalized training that I am hoping to get to be able to up my own game in living by purpose, but I need to follow up just a week ago, I was on your wonderful podcast On Purpose, number one health and wellness podcast in the land, and we got to have a conversation. First of all, get us all up to speed. What did we talk about? 

Jay Shetty   

Yeah, we had a great conversation last week, I can’t believe it’s been a few days. And I loved how we dove into your great work of essentialism. And you know, I love there was such a great conversation. And I remember you took me through your core essentialism practice or exercise, if you’d like to call it that. It was great. We, you know, answered the question of, you know, what do I value that I’m not spending as much time on at the moment, and the answer that came up for me was feeling that I was connecting with my mother and specifically connecting with her daily I call her once a week, but we were looking into how we could improve that relationship and that feeling that I have by connecting with her on a daily basis.  

Greg McKeown   

And before we go any further with that, I mean, you first of all, you were so game to do this, and I was impressed that you are able to identify something important. I mean, I know that you do live a really deliberate, purposeful life, personally and professionally. So it’s not like the mountains of things to choose between. But you did still identify essential relationships, something really important. And we broke it down to a daily practice, as you mentioned, but just a few minutes doesn’t have to be a lot, but few minutes, every day, from that point to this. And you have a lot going on right now. So I’m actually quite curious about how it went. But how has this experiment gone? How have you done this week? 

Jay Shetty  

Well, I like being completely honest. I’d say I’ve done every other day, not every day. And I’ve been sending a voice note or sending a memory sometimes I’ll go on to Facebook and going to that on this day memory. And sometimes I’ve shared stuff, like a picture with my mother or when we were traveling to Prague, which was like, six years ago, whatever and I got a picture of it. I sent it to my mom, and I was like, look, mom we were in Prague six years ago. And, you know, that really made her day or I’ll send her a voice note in the morning because we talked about how the time difference between London and LA is eight hours. And so by the time my days winding down, that’s when my mum’s already fast asleep. And so the only way that I can really communicate with her often in the beginning of my day, or when I’m back to back in meetings is through voice notes or something like that. And so, yeah, it’s been it’s been beautiful. I mean, I’m definitely happier and more joyful that I’m doing it. I definitely think it’s making a difference to her as well. And so even though I am unable to do every day, I think every other day feels realistic to me and also feels genuine as well. And you know, it gives me something meaningful to send, which I think is very important to me. 

Greg McKeown    

Yeah, I love that. And I love the examples you’re giving because they are small units, the things that people can do. It’s not, it’s not shape the world stuff. But if you develop this practice, let’s say it is once every two days, but you were to do that with your mother for let’s, let’s talk about it for several years, there’s unquestionable that it would add up to something quite substantial, where she knows that you are thinking of her. And that you really suppose an act of gratitude just because, you know, whatever the quality of our parents happened to be. In my case, I had great parents, you had great parents, but regardless, we need to be grateful for the people who came before us. 

Jay Shetty   

Yeah, absolutely. And I know, you know, in our conversation we were talking about that site, which helps you calculate how many more times you’ll see your parents. And I think it’s called like, seeyourfolks.com or something like that. And, and that website, you know, if you go in and you type it out, you can kind of see like how many more times you’ll see your parents in your lifetime. And when you see that that really makes you reflect and become aware of just how valuable and priceless this time is, and how you never want to be in a situation where you are not happy or regretful about the way you dealt with people that are so important to you and I think that’s something I always hold close to myself then I always want to make sure that people are happier and more loved after I’ve spent time with them 

Greg McKeown   

Such a great intention and this idea of reflection and focusing on what matters and being so deliberate just makes me want to go like backup now you know to sort of the beginning in your wonderful book Think Like a Monk, you start with this story your if I remembering right, your university and your friend invites you to a to a speech with a monk tell us that story and what grows out of it. 

Jay Shetty  

Yeah, absolutely. So I was born and raised in London, and I grew up like an average Londoner. I was into stuff that any teenager would be into music, dating, having to go to school and university. And all the rest of it. I’m trying to plan for a life and a career but also wanting to have fun and travel. And I wasn’t necessarily I wouldn’t consider myself religious or spiritual, I would always consider myself reflective and introspective but nothing more than that. And I at that time was really fascinated by rags to riches stories and people who went from nothing to something and I was reading David Beckham’s autobiography, and I was reading Dwayne The Rock Johnson’s autobiography at the time. And I was just fascinated by real people who’d been through challenging situations in their own life, to achieve great things. And I would go and listen to entrepreneurs speak and CEOs. And if I heard that a celebrity was in town, and they were doing a book signing, I’d always want to be in the audience to learn from them. And then I found out that there was a monk going to be speaking. And I was thinking, well, what am I going to learn from a monk like, you know, what am I going to learn about nothing like what do monks know and I had this really cynical view of what I could learn from a monk because I just didn’t understand what monks did or who they were or, or what they could do. And I remember asking my friend, I said, I’d only go if we promised that we’d go to a bar afterwards. And my friends, being very smart, knew how to get me there. And so they agreed. And so I went to this event, expecting nothing having very low expectations, if anything. And you know, the universe is ironic when it does this to you where you go somewhere expecting nothing, and you feel like you’ve received everything. And what I mean by that is, you know, he was speaking about how the greatest thing we can do is use our talents and gifts in the service of others, how being compassionate and loving instruments of joy and service in the world is actually what’s needed. And that when we’re learning so many things at college and university, that ultimately, we won’t be satisfied unless we use them to actually impact and help other people. And I thought this you know, I’m 18 years old and I’m thinking, this is such a unique, counterintuitive and refreshing outlook that I’ve never heard anyone talk about. All I ever hear anyone talk about, here are the steps to success. Here’s how I made this much money. Here’s how I did this. And I was like, wow, he’s a totally different path. And I remember now in hindsight, that when I was 18, I’d met people who are rich. I’d met people who are beautiful and attractive. I’d met people who were powerful. I’d met people who are famous and met people who are athletic, but I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who is truly happy. And when I met this monk, I believe that he was happy. And even if you do an audit right now, if I ask people, what count how many people you think you’ve met in your life that you would genuinely hand on your heart say you believed were happy? I guarantee you there’s only probably a couple of faces and names that come to your mind if that and It’s fascinating to dive into that person’s mind. So that’s the story and the kind of background and context of how think like a monk the book began. 

Greg McKeown   

And so this name something for you something you don’t even know you’re looking for. You are on a search for success you are everyday at 18. You’re doing things you just described, you’re already tuned into a certain hunger for education, for learning, for self-development. But somehow this is so different to what you have been reading and learning elsewhere. But it resonates much more deeply for you. But it doesn’t end there. I mean, some people even listening to that story or if they went to hear monk speak somewhere, might be touched by it, but it’s more than that for you. It names something at the core, and it changes the direction of your life. 

Jay Shetty   

Yeah, absolutely. I think for me, it was the curiosity and fascination with, well, what does this person know that I don’t know? And what can they teach me that I don’t know? And what can I learn from them that I will never be exposed to, If I don’t take this step? And so like any good networking trained student, I, you know, went up to him and I said, I waited till the end. And often he was answering questions and I said, look, I want to spend more time with you like, I want to learn what this is all about and what you’re speaking about, like, I want to experience that and I’m just captivated by what you said. And so I ended up traveling with him to a few of his other events and hearing him in the city for that week. But then he invited me as he saw me develop that sort of commitment. He saw that I was I was serious about what I was saying, as I’d go to other events that he was doing in places he was speaking. And he invited me to start spending some time with him in India in in the ashram and I thought, wow, this is incredible. So I did what I called probably my first ever AB test or split test. Where I would spend half of my summer vacations or holidays and Christmas holidays, I would spend half of them, you know, sometimes interning at a finance company in London, and I’d spend the other half living as a monk in India. So living with the monks in India. And so I literally was going from steak houses, bars and suits, to sleeping on the floor, meditating with monks and living very simply. And so I did that for most of my summer breaks and vacations and holidays. In between while I was at University studying. And after three years, I decided that when I compared the two paths I had before me one to go into the corporate world, and the other to go and live the life of a monk and of service and of self-mastery. I was far more attracted and drawn to the monk path, because I would come back from those vacations and those trips there feeling energized and I’d come back sometimes When my day out in the corporate environment just feeling tired or bored or disengaged, and I thought, wow, there’s something special in this. And I thought how amazing if I could use, you know, the years of my life to not only overcome my own ego to work on my own mind, but to actually help and serve and make a difference in other people’s lives. 

Greg McKeown   

From an essentialist point of view, that AB test is somewhat akin to the experience in London in the business environment, this undisciplined pursuit of more, and the experience in India is this disciplined pursuit of less but better. You are drawn to this, you’re pulled to this, you say, okay, I’m going to go and do this for real, really not just I’m going to do this. I’m going to become this. I’m going to become a monk.  

Jay Shetty   

So I think we often see life as two extremes. A lot of people live a life of selfishness where or greed or greed or even just self-centeredness where it all becomes about you. And then on the opposing end, some of us live a life of what we just want to give. And we just want to be empathetic and we just want to serve. But none of those are sustainable. If you are just selfish and greedy, it’s not sustainable, because eventually you lose meaning and fulfillment. And you might even lose a few people along the way. And if you’re just about giving, and you don’t have anything to give, then there’s only so long you can give for.  

Greg McKeown   

So I’m having in my mind this, this image of Dr. Strange leaving the Western society, and he’s going into the eastern philosophies, and he’s, at first really struggling to learn and know that this is a fictional story here, but was it still a struggle for you as you went to this full time, or by this point, did you just find this, you know, just genuinely enjoyable to be released from some of these, these mental and emotional burdens that you’d had before? Tell me about the transition. 

Jay Shetty   

You know what Dr. Strange, funnily enough, is a brilliant analogy. And I’ve used it as a reference point several times because, I mean, first of all, it’s a brilliant movie, and I’m a big Marvel fan. But second of all, there’s a lot of truth in how Dr. Strange’s character approaches Eastern practices, and eventually realizes the value in them. I think my main experimentation, or the challenge came in those years leading up to me actually choosing to become a monk. So a lot of times when I think about when was it tough, it was never tough when I made the decision because by then I’d experienced enough. The challenge was in those moments where I was going from bars, steak houses and wearing suits to sleeping on the floor and waking up at 4am. And the initial challenges were simple. The initial challenges were waking up every day, having to be in a communal atmosphere every day, having to be around lots of other people that I didn’t know every day. But what I started to realize is that as you stretched and pushed your comfort zone, your ability to adapt stretched as well. So I didn’t believe that I had the ability to have cold showers in the morning or wake up at 4am until I had to do it. And when I started to do it, I started to realize the value in it and why we did it. And as soon as I understood the why of what we were doing, it became such a beautiful experience and that’s the thing these weren’t just practices for the sake of it. And so you just start to get this affinity for the practices. And even on days when things weren’t going my way you start learning that two is the practice. So I’ll give an example. I remember one morning, we were on a trip in South India, and I remember waking up and I woke up late and waking up late in monk life probably the closest thing to the walk of shame in monk life. Have you had a walk of shame in monk life is turning up the collective meditations late. And so I wake up late and obviously have to shower I kind of put on my robes and turn up dirty to meditations. And I see outside that it’s raining. And I remember that I was told this is our first morning there. I remember being told that the showers were somewhat of a walk away. So I get outside and walking in the mud. I’ve got my flip flops on, so I’ve got my muddy feet. It’s raining I’m trying to cover my head. It’s pouring when it when it rains in India sometimes. And I’m walking down to these showers and I finally get to the shower and open the shower. And I’m still feeling the rain because I realized that open air showers and so the shower is the rain? And I’m thinking, what am I what am I doing like why am I doing this? And I always have this moment of like, well what if I was sitting in a comfy office? In the corner office in London and a beautiful view of the skyline, and I realized that no this is too part of the practice that I think this is a bad day. But this is a good day to choose how I want to feel as opposed to having all of my life decided, you know we all must live a default decided life of everything decides how we feel. We let the weather decide how we feel. We let the first person the morning decide how we feel. We let an email decide how we feel. And the whole training in my own practice was you have to decide how you feel. And the only way you decide how you feel is in a moment where everything is telling you to feel a different way. You allow yourself to feel the pain and the stress of it being a rainy day and my feet being muddy and being in an open shower. I allow myself to feel that and experience that. But then I love and I feel grateful because I’m allowed to have a very unique experience in learning how to have a conversation with the mind and learning how to calm the mind.  

Greg McKeown   

And I think that what you’re describing is that meditation isn’t just something you do. It’s just a way of being. And in that there’s a certain part where you’re trying to formalize meditation. And, of course, that’s an important part of the practice, but sometimes even there people over exert themselves. Trying too hard or I can I had a great meditation yesterday, let me try to capture and recapture that and, and have it today. And actually, meditation is just being in this moment. Embracing all that is here. It’s just embracing this moment and being fully here and being alive in it. Am I understanding it right? 

Jay Shetty     

For sure, definitely. That’s a big part of it. So with meditation, it like you rightly said, it’s a lifestyle and a way of living. It’s not just a tool or a practice. The tool, the way we were trained is that the two hours that you meditate or the four hours that you meditate, the eight hours that you meditate a day, those hours which should improve your meditation, in the hours you’re not meditating. And the hours that you’re not officially meditating should improve your meditation. So it’s a symbiotic relationship where everything you do outside of your practice is affecting you. And everything you do in your practice is affecting you.  

Greg McKeown   

I really love that. So carrying on with the Doctor Strange here for a second, there’s a certain point at which you some way graduate from this experience, or at least you get to a point where you start to sense what? 

Jay Shetty   

Yeah, I start to recognize that everything is a part of the lesson. And I think that you finally grow to an understanding that rather than fighting and trying to control and trying to manipulate energy and life and trying to get it to work, how you want it to go, you start recognizing that no, you go with life’s plan and then create from that. So I often say to people that you get to where you want in life, just not in the way you imagined it. Most people don’t get to where they like want in life because the path is not as they imagined. And that’s our biggest issue is that we have a journey or like a film role playing in our mind of what it should look like. And then when reality doesn’t match up to that we go, Oh, this must be wrong, when actually it should be the other way around where we infuse our values, desires, abilities and talents into what reality is giving us rather than creating a false reality that’s misleading us.  

Greg McKeown   

How does one do what you’re talking about in a normal world? Somebody’s married, maybe they have children, it’s the middle of COVID. Now they’ve got all these distractions. They’ve got worries and stresses this idea of training your mind for purpose every day. How do you do that? 

Jay Shetty   

So the first thing that we have to recognize is that it all starts with inquiry and questioning. So if you’re sitting there and you’re going, I don’t know what’s going on, I’m trying to find new ideas, trying to learn about new stuff, then you’re in exactly the place you need to be. And I think that’s the problem that we don’t want to sit with that discomfort. We want to live in the comfort of distraction or numbing. So a study that I share in the book is that men and women were asked if they wanted to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes. And if they didn’t, they had to give themselves an electric shock. 30% of women chosen electric shock and 60% of men chosen electric shock because they didn’t want to be alone with their thoughts for 15 minutes. Now, why am I sharing this because sometimes we don’t want to sit in the discomfort, that I’m not happy with where my life’s going. Or I’m not passionate about my work. Or maybe I need to make some shifts and we’d rather numb ourselves or distract us or avoid our real feelings. So the first step is you have to just pluck up the courage to sit with the discomfort. The second step in in wanting to live this is recognizing, and this is an activity that I share in the book that I think will really give people some clarity. I asked people to write down the top three things that they’re currently pursuing in their life. And so you just make a list of the top three things actually, let’s do this. Let’s do this together. What are the three things Greg where you think that you are currently pursuing in life? 

Greg McKeown   

I am pursuing at the core wanting to fulfill my essential mission in life. Right for me, this is sacrosanct. This is what I keep coming back to, I can fall off that I can be distracted as much as anybody else but that’s what I keep coming back to. The second thing I was am striving for is a real unity and oneness with my wife Anna and our children. That to me is like if I get that wrong, I just think it’s a pretty clear thing. And I’m not saying this for anybody else but for me that I will not have done what I came here to do that this is a priority role and embodies what’s essential. Third thing for me right now is a book that I’ve almost finished writing. But the deadline is just, I mean, just literally a few days from now. And so that’s something that I have now for some time been really singular about. And those are three things that the first thoughts that come to my mind. 

Jay Shetty   

Those are beautiful. Thank you for sharing those is so wonderful. I love your intentions. And they just there’s such beautiful aspirations and things that you’re pursuing and thank you for sharing is okay, so that’s great. So I would ask everyone to name their three. And your three may not be as clear as Greg and maybe if you’ve been following him and his podcast for a while, they may be a bit clearer. But for most of us, some of us may not have such clear goals, but that’s beautiful either way. The second question you ask yourself is, what has influenced this as a goal in my life? Has it come from my heart and me and my soul? Or is it coming from my parents’ expectations? Is it coming from school? Is it coming from what my friends are doing and what they’re up to? Asking yourself what is the source of the influence, or what is the main influence that I currently see driving this? Is it me, or is it outside of me is an inward intrinsic motivator is an extrinsic motivator? So would you say for each of those three, Greg, I think I know the answer. But if you were to answer it, honestly, and reflectively, would you find that the current motivation for all of them is coming from the inside or the outside? 

Greg McKeown   

Let me answer it this way, I think the answer is yes to the three I mentioned. But even within the book example, I can think of many times when in the writing process I have been pulled, not just the extrinsic motivations, but even where I’ll think of somebody else is doing really well on a book or it’s just killing it or somehow I it leaves me with that feeling of being behind that you talked about before or not, you know, not, you know, Oh, am I really fulfilling everything I’m supposed to fulfill, and it has a completely different sensation about it. It’s frenetic and it’s more frantic and I’ve definitely felt that at times and had to notice it and try to come back to a pure motive and remind myself what the real reason is. 

Jay Shetty    

Absolutely, and just to make you feel more aligned too I get it, I feel that too. So you know, that’s a very real thing that we can have our deep beautiful intentions, but often they’re distracted by others. So everyone is doing this activity at home and I hope you have a piece of pen and paper and if you don’t, then you know come back to this moment. So you can do this activity it really should be done writing it down. Don’t do it mentally. So if when you write it down, you go okay, well, are these me? Or are they outside of me? And you’ll find a mix of the answers and like me and Greg have been open you find a mix even in the certainty and the good thing about that is you then ask yourself, well, do I want to still do this for me? Do I still want to pursue this for the right reasons and what is that right intention? So what this activity this simple activity does, is it allows you to have a quick reflection without judging yourself, without putting pressure on yourself without seeing yourself as negative or bad or, or ill motivated, you get to take a mirror reflection of what you’re pursuing, and where you are on that journey. And you continue to what I call, refine your intention. It’s almost like weeds start to grow in a beautiful garden. And you need to go into the garden of your life and continue to weed out all of those weeds that often look like plants. They often look like seeds. They often even look like flowers and trees, but they’re weeds. And we uproot those weeds in our own life. And so that’s how we do it. This is the beginning point of just creating a practice to ask, so why am I chasing this? Why is this important to me? Where is it coming from? Is it coming from a place that I really believe in? Or is it coming from a place that’s just disconnected? And now if I do still want to pursue it, let me pursue it with more intention than  debt. 

Greg McKeown   

Help me with this scenario where I’m off track where I’m feeling this, this this sort of unnatural pull outside of the truest intent outside of that, and you’re saying pruning it, and you’re just weeding it out completely? How exactly do I do that? 

Jay Shetty   

Yes, so how you do it is so let’s take an example that we can look for here. So let’s take the example of the book. So let’s say you’re writing a book, and for anyone’s listening or watching, let’s say you’re preparing a presentation for work, or you’re launching a podcast or whatever it may be, you’re launching a blog, a video channel, or whatever, it is a part of your business. And so let’s take any of those examples. And let’s say that currently, when you reflect on it, you start realizing I’m actually doing this because I just want to feel validated. I’m doing this because I just want the title and the status. And I’m doing this because I’m just trying to compete with the other people around me and I just to keep up. Now, when you come to face to face with that, it can be uncomfortable. And again, this is why we try to avoid having that conversation with ourselves because we don’t like conflict with others. And we definitely don’t like conflict with ourselves. And so when we look at that fight, we get discouraged. But when we realized that these are all normal, human nature, pushes and pulls there are going to arise in any one of our minds, no matter who we are, we start to realize, okay, these are just there, they exist. Now, let me think about how to avoid them. So you’re saying how do we do that? The way we do that, is by asking ourselves, why do I truly want to do this? And something that I call in the book, the why ladder, where you keep asking yourself why, where you’re building a ladder downwards, that you can step on. So if you imagine you’ve got this goal, this thing that you’re pursuing, it’s like having a ladder which only has the top step and it doesn’t have any more steps. towards it because you only know what you want, you don’t know why you want it. And just simply by asking yourself, why continuously? If you answer them genuinely you start to build the steps of the ladder that can actually get you to that top step. And the more deeply you answer it, the more likely you know the next move that you need to make. So if you say why do I want to get people’s validation? Because I don’t feel like I’m successful right now. Okay, why don’t I feel successful right now? Because you know, everyone’s achieving more than me. Okay, well, why is everyone achieving more than you? Because I’m not focusing on building my craft. Okay, why am I not focusing on building my craft? Because I’m focusing on everyone else building their craft. Okay, why am I focusing on building their craft? Because I’m not building my craft. Okay, why am I building my craft? Because I’m having this conversation with myself right now. Let me focus on building my craft because then I’m guaranteed to feel fulfilled and achieve the success that will naturally come with that. So when you get to that step and you keep pushing yourself and these questions have to be asked, as what is known as a sincere request and not a demand. A lot of our questions to ourselves, to the people around us into the universe are demands, they’re not questions. When you’re doing this activity with yourself, be gentle with yourself. Be calm with yourself. And sometimes you may ask the question and sit with it for a day and it won’t come to you until the next day or another two days, but it’s known as a question meditation. And a question meditation is where you just have a sincere request. And you simply wait in patience for the answer through a friend or family member is something that you read, and you allow the answer to come rather than forcing it out. 

Greg McKeown   

I love that description because I’ve often thought our minds are these. These exquisitely complex and beautiful machines to continue that metaphor. But they’re so vast that it’s like a Google search. But it takes a lot longer for the answer to come back, it will come back to us. But we have to wait for a while. And it will do it search and it will make the connections and it will bring back something that’s, that’s real. Maybe it’s when we’re ready for it. I don’t know quite what the algorithm is. But it there seems to be something it’s not instant. It’s not point two seconds, but it will be found and it will be presented back. 

Jay Shetty    

I’m really glad you brought that up, Greg, that I’ve described it like that before where you know, on even when you’re searching on Google, you sometimes have to refine your search. And there’s an advanced search function if you want to get really into it. And ultimately, it’s all based on your connection, right? You talked about the algorithm there and it your search is all based on the quality of your internet connection. And the quality of your life connection is all based on how in tune you are with your intuition, with your alignment with yourself. And when I say alignment with yourself what I mean is, Gandhi has a beautiful quote where he said that true harmony is experienced when what you think what you say and what you do are aligned. And for most of us, we think one thing, we say another thing, and we do something completely different, right? Like I, I’ve experienced that before. And so, so what we’re really encouraging is trying to find that alignment, that we’re living in alignment with ourselves that what we think, what we say, and what we do are aligned. And when we achieve that, it becomes a lot more easier to have a good connection to find the answer to our question, and I get it that these are concepts that are challenging, I get it that these are concepts that require time, but the truth is that we haven’t yet found a better algorithm apart from potentially alcohol, TV and entertainment to numb and navigate and distract ourselves from A lot of these feelings. And by the way, those are long journeys to and back as well. And so why not? Why not? alternatively, we take a different path. And then there are habits in your day that help you find that alignment. So, one of my favorite things, and this is super practical that anyone can start doing right now is this acronym called time in the book. And time stands for time, which is thankfulness, inspiration, meditation and exercise. If someone goes, Jay, how do I stay connected every day? This is my formula. First, you start your day with thankfulness. What I mean by thankfulness is not just feeling it, it’s expressing it. Feeling thankfulness is emotional expressing thankfulness is experiential when you tell someone what you’re grateful for. When you thank someone for something specific.  

Greg McKeown   

I can certainly speak to this both from a research point of view this idea that people are suffering from, you know, like not attention deficit disorder add, but a gdd as well, a gratitude deficit disorder. We’re not just themselves, failing to be grateful, which of course is what your practices suggesting, but that we most of us live in an environment where people are not being great grateful enough to us. So the people that we work with, were taking them for granted, we just think well, that’s their job. And that’s, that’s what they need to do. And our thanks is very, is as a result muted or nonspecific in the way you’re saying it. So there’s this, I think great opportunity, if you’re the person who chooses to be specific, and just real gratitude can make a lot of difference. I love this, this first thing. Now the second thing you mentioned, I think was insight is in your time. 

Jay Shetty   

Absolutely, yes so the second thing is insight. So we need and I know you do this, Greg, you know, we spoke about it on my podcast last week. It’s finding some time to sit with an idea that you want to try and put into action. So if you’re not exposed to insights, ideas and inspiration on a daily basis, you won’t what you’re trying to apply to your life. So this could be as simple as a quote, it could be words or verses from scripture. It could be a motivational book, whatever it is for you. It’s finding a piece of insight or an idea that you want to put into practice today. So for example, I shared this quote today on my Instagram page, where I said, you don’t need to fix everything. Some things, you just have to feel. Some people, you just have to let heal. Not everything you think is broken, is broken. Now that to me is been something I’ve been trying to practice lately that when I am going about my day, I’m trying not to think of things as broken and things I have to fix. And so what I say to people is write a quote, and wake up to it first thing in the morning, make it your screensaver on your phone, make it your desktop, on your background, talk about in every conversation, bring it up for a week, and you may have the same one for a week or the same one for a month. But you need some insight inspiration in your life every day. 

Greg McKeown    

Yes. And one of the things that I love about this early morning practice of reading and reading wisdom, literature of whatever kind for me first thing in the morning it scripture is that it can graduate through processes. So at first, you’re, you’re reading it and you’re just tapping into the wisest source that, that you can. So there’s nothing wrong with that. That’s a great start. But there’s a point at which my own reading practice, it’s really, it’s no longer a book anymore. It’s just a process for getting further insight. It’s just an opening where you can gain You know, one is just a vehicle for actually getting atuned so that more insights, more revelations can flow into you. 

Jay Shetty   

So well said so beautifully said I completely agree. 

Greg McKeown   

Third was meditation. 

Jay Shetty    

Yeah, so meditation and I’m going to describe this simply for anyone who doesn’t meditate is spending some time by yourself with yourself. Stealing yourself. And the reason for this is really, really simple now, Greg, I’m sure you’ve experienced this in your life when you’re running around the world and you’re, you’re speaking and you’re meeting people and you’re networking and you’re doing work and you’re traveling. Imagine your partner wants to say something meaningful to you. And they want to share something important to you. How likely are they going to share it with you? When you’re all over the place? I’m guessing most people wouldn’t and I’m sure many people are in that situation. I experienced that. I know that when I’m traveling and busy and everything my wife can’t have a real conversation with me if I’m not there and I’m not present. Well guess what your mind and your body are the same. your mind and your body can’t tell you what they need, what they want or what’s happening or find clarity. When you’re running around living an active life and all over the place. Now guess what we will have to live busy lives. I get it. We do that but carving out Five minutes a day, 10 minutes a day of just sitting and listening to our body and mind. What are the thoughts that arise? What are the sensations that arise? I’ve done this with clients. And people have discovered that they had pains in their body that they didn’t know about, all the way through psychological issues that they hadn’t even considered, because they didn’t spend time where they were just still, where they had space, and where they were in silence. So in the beginning, just seeing what comes out of silence and stillness is such a powerful meditation to do. 

Greg McKeown  

And then the fourth thing in this time is exercise. Talk to us about that. 

Jay Shetty  

Yeah. So obviously, as monks, we practiced yoga, but I really believe that movement. And you know, I’m not a fitness expert I’m not trying to be but from the fitness experts that I’ve interviewed on the podcast, from my personal trainer, to the people that I’ve spoken to through my wife, who’s a nutritionist and a dietitian, and deeply understands her body and exercise, I found that movement in the day is good for the mind. And if you’re not moving every day, it’s so easy to think that all your issues are in the mind, but if we simply move, and that could be a dance party, it could be a sport. It could be the gym, it could be the treadmill, but it could also be so many things. And I think finding an exercise routine and accountability partner that you genuinely enjoy. So for me, it’s like I love sports. I don’t necessarily love working out and so if I’m not with a trainer, I would want to play tennis or I want to play basketball or something just to be active. And so finding a way to find movement in your day is such a powerful way, again, of being present in your body. Remember, we don’t, we’re rarely where our body is. And when you exercise you have to be where your body is, but you have to be a breath, you have to be with the movement. And most of us spend our lives in our head and not in our bodies. And so again, with again, physically and mentally disconnected from our, from our physical bodies, so that’s such a priority that needs to be made. 

Greg McKeown   

I was just recently reading a book called One Small Step Can Change Your Life by Robert Mora. And he’s talking about how small change can lead to big change. And one of the examples is so compelling. It’s it was in a medical situation there’s, I think, two doctors in the room and he’s one of them. And they’re saying to this woman who’s clearly not exercising and moving and they go to say the normal things. Well, you really need to be doing half an hour of serious exercise every day and, and as they do it she just looking more and more discouraged. And Robert, the author just interrupts, and he says look, okay, that’s obviously not going to work as too much. It’s overwhelming for you right now. But could you please take one minute while you’re watching television, to walk in place? And, and she lights up and she does it consistently for the next 30 days. And when she comes back for the checkup, it’s not like her whole life is transformed, but her orientation is changed. She says, okay, what’s the next thing I can do for one minute today? She said, and it was the beginning of this progress and, and so he goes on to some really interesting research about even the act of standing for one minute changes your physiology and has the significant effect vantages and if you, if you can go and walk fairly just, you know, a one minute walk, but you’re walking now doubles the benefit. And, and so sometimes we think are it’s, you know, maybe it’s overwhelming to add some additional thing. But if you even just do incremental processes, I know that I’ll try and get up and walk around just every 90 minutes even while I’m writing the book. I’ll try and do that. Otherwise, if I don’t set a timer or, you know, build that practice, I can just get into a mode and it’s been hours, and this really isn’t great for the mind, heart, body or spirit. Give us give us the final word here. Give us the final word on how to think like a monk. 

Jay Shetty   

The final word on how to think like a monk is to feel aligned in your thoughts, words and actions. So look for the disconnection in your thoughts, words and actions. And by upgrading and up leveling your towards, you can also start to upgrade and up level your actions in words. And when you find that alignment, that’s when you most feel connected with your truest self and your authentic self, and ultimately, your monk self. 

Greg McKeown  

Jay Shetty. We’ve had a wonderful conversation I appreciate so much, not just what you’ve shared, but what’s you’re trying to do and to be in the world. I am. I just have this sensation that one of the reasons you are being successful and that you’re  reaching a greater and greater audience really is the alignment that you have and that you’re trying to continue to develop is that is that you can feel that within you and so people are along for this journey together with you, Jay, thank you very much for being on the essentialism podcast. 

Jay Shetty    

Thank you so much, Greg. This is a pleasure and the feeling is very mutual. So grateful to know you now and so proud and amazed of what you’re doing in the world and I look forward to many more ways to collaborate. Thank you so much. Amen to that.