44. John Hope Bryant on Making Every Moment Count

SPEAKERS

Greg McKeown, John Hope Bryant

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Greg McKeown

John Hope Bryant

John Hope Bryant

Hello, Greg, how are you?

Greg McKeown

This is awfully good to have you here today. We, I want to call you like Dr. Hope you I need you to have a PhD. So I can call you, Dr. Hope.

John Hope Bryant

Well, I’ve got a couple of honorary PhDs, but just call me, john.

Greg McKeown

I love that you had the honorary degrees, because that’s how I want people to know you, Dr. Hope, the amazing story that you have what an extraordinary thing raised in Compton, life totally transformed really, from a seed, an intervention, nine years old, taught financial literacy. And from that point, this expansion of possibility, and you’ve just done so much with it. Built 70 organizations in across business, community outreach, and also, of course, this juggernaut, Operation Hope that, that you that that is empowering people in exactly the way you were empowered at nine years old, helping people to be able to make these transitions towards financial literacy, and the enormous empowerment that can come with that it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for coming.

John Hope Bryant

Thank you, Greg. To be with you got an excellent reputation. And so I’m, I’m honored to lean in.

Greg McKeown

Well lean in is exactly what we’re going to do. And here’s, here’s how I want to do this is a little different. And if you’re game for it, I would like to ask you maybe a

couple of unusual questions, and we’ll get to this great work that you’ve been doing eventually, you game for that?

John Hope Bryant

Sure.

Greg McKeown

Here’s what I want to do. I want to ask you a question. And I just want your first thoughts on the on your answers and we’ll go on a journey together. I want you to tell me something in your life right now. That is really essential, highly important. It matters to you a great deal. But if you’re honest about it right now, you have to say I’m under investing in it. It doesn’t have to be something that you don’t do anything of but you just feel like deep down. I’m not giving this the amount. I wish I was because of how important it is. What’s your first thought when I asked you that question?

John Hope Bryant

Rest.

Greg McKeown

Yes. Okay, I tell me a bit more about that.

John Hope Bryant

I just think that the moment right now really matters. And it matters to be to be fully invested in it all in to find a way to say yes to as much good stuff with good people as you can, you know, not drawing a parallel in any way here. But people relate to Dr. King, so I’ll say that, you know, he did you know, 2600 speeches over six years, over 13 years traveling 6 million air miles. It wasn’t one glorious moment. With one speech somewhere, one March. It was 13 years of parent teacher night and boring staff meetings and countless plane flights and frustrations and disappointments and people disrespecting him and not giving him his just do and playing games with him and making promises and not keeping on. But he just never, he just never gave up. He was unrelenting and total commitment. And I think that we history doesn’t feel historic when you’re sitting in it just feels like another day. But that doesn’t mean that the moment you’re sitting in is not in fact historic so if you’re sitting in historic moments, what are you going to do about it? And we have this global economic crisis we have a

pandemic is global with as a result of that an economic crisis is global and now you have a social justice issue that needs to be addressed and dealt with is 400 years old. There has never been healed. And it’s also global the largest protests in the world history and so rest is just not very high on the priority list at the moment you know what’s good quote my friend Quincy Jones “you rest when you’re dead.” I’m getting enough rest insufficient, barely sufficient but sufficient but the work the works important gotta lean in.

Greg McKeown

Well, here’s what I hear in you. I hear this mission this is so vitally important to take advantage of this moment to fulfill your mission. To be able to make the fullest contribution, the highest contribution you can, you’re inspired by Dr. King by his relentlessness by what he was able to, this is on the one side. And then there’s this awareness although in some ways you don’t really even want it to be there. Because it doesn’t seem as important to you, but there’s this awareness that rest is something also that’s vitally important. And you maybe you’re getting enough, but really, you know, maybe not quite enough. That’s what I heard you say?

John Hope Bryant

Yes, of course. But that’s, that’s the fight for balance in life, and but the Bible suggests your reach should exceed your grasp. And the Bible also suggests that when there is no vision, the people perish. It’s a parable of life, like you want to, you want to rest and you want to end your work at nine o’clock, not at five o’clock, and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, people in their day at five o’clock don’t change the world and are rarely able to impact. Systemic change, you got to, you got to be all in you got to be all leaned in 100%. And 100%, is, you know, an entrepreneur works 18 hours a day to keep from getting a job. It doesn’t, it doesn’t apply, it doesn’t matter what you apply it to it. The rules of physics apply that you the more you lean in, the more it’s compounding interest, compound, interest, compound and hustle. Balance matters to you got time to read a book, time to listen to a book time to spend time with your family. It’s just that, you know, every moment matters. Every moment counts, I can’t waste moments. I can’t waste time by having options, way more time and more money. I say give me more time I’ll make more money. But much better this is saying I’m bored. Oh, you understand what that what that phrase means?

Greg McKeown

Yes, you’ve not experienced that that’s not your reality. That’s not your norm, you have been on a mission. You’ve been on fire for all of these years. But there’s something interesting to what you’re saying. I think there’s a belief, there’s an assumption, it’s pretty deep in what you’ve just said to me, which is that is the feeling that the only way to break through to the next level is more hustle. And so and so I want to try and explore this a little more because frankly, the whole basis of essentialism is that there is in fact an alternative path, there may be a way to break through to a higher point of contribution through a different approach. And so I want to explore that with you. And the way I’d like to explore it is this way, when I asked the question, what’s essential you’re not investing in you say rest, why does the rest matter so much? What is at stake for you in getting sufficient rest?

John Hope Bryant

You want the rest, because you want to recharge. I’m not tired, I’m just exhausted, if I was tired, that means I’m not doing what I’m supposed to do. If somebody’s listening to this and they’re tired than they’re they probably need to quit their job or quit their relationship or quit their way of life and go find something else to read to re inspire them. I’m not tired, I’m just exhausted, which means I’ll do as long as much as I can. As long as I can in my brain gets mushy gets where it gets uncharred my writing, I can’t trust because I’m not using all the endorphins in my brain that kick. To re-invest in myself to recharge to so I can be re inspired so I can be rebooted and reset in the movement for the next the next day. I’ve had to learn the hard way that sometimes you just need to go sit down somewhere. I don’t necessarily believe in vacations, but I believe in retreats. So I’ll retreat a couple times a year for two or three weeks and go read a book sit on the beach, I’m still working. Well, some people call it work. I don’t call it work. I’m still reading, reading, reflecting, staying up to date responsive to things that are urgent. But it’s all about being God and puts you here to come here and chill. I mean, this is the word war down here. I mean, this is a war against good and evil. And there’s three things in the world. And there’s love is work. Non love is laziness. Anti-love is evil. Evil exists, but it’s just very rare. Most people are just lazy, actually. Emotionally lazy, financially lazy, you physically lazy, spiritually lazy, intellectually lazy, morally lazy. They just don’t want to do the work. They want somebody else to do the work for them. That’s not the way. That’s not the way that’s not how change happens. You can’t subcontract your democracy. You can’t

subcontract your courage or your responsibility. You can’t raise your children by email, you know, in and angers out a strategy and frustration is not a business plan can’t point fingers at someone else to solve your problems. That’s winning a battle losing a war.

Greg McKeown

Something you just said there a second ago is you’re saying hey, I’m not tired. I’m exhausted. And, you know, it’s clearly possible to be both exhausted and exhilarated and that’s what you’re saying.

John Hope Bryant

No doubt about it, I’m exhilarated. I’m all pumped up, ready to go. I woke up today and yesterday a little worn for wear. So which means it means it’s about time for my retreat, and a few weeks to go just sleep for three or four days. But you know, typically, I typically I’m not, I’m just, I don’t want to go to bed and I don’t want to wake I don’t wanna go to bed. I can’t wait to wake up because I’m so excited about all this going on and making a difference. And I don’t want to let the moment my responsibility to others who don’t have my voice and don’t have my my Rolodex and don’t have that can’t get people on the phone, like I get on the phone. I don’t want to wait. I don’t want to let my ambassadorship on behalf of the people go to waste.

Greg McKeown

I relate so much to what you’re seeing when your mission is so clear, when it’s aligned so well with your passion with your talent, in this case, you, you want to be doing this, this is what you came here to do. This is what you want to be doing. But you said something else a moment ago that got my attention. You said I’ve learned the hard way that I have got to recognize when I’m getting to that point in a day where it’s it’s beyond even the it’s beyond the house, what I’m looking for is beyond diminishing returns. At first, the mission is so important, so vitalizing, for you, that you want to give every ounce, it’s almost like you’re really saying, Greg, if I could, if I could just skip sleep, I’d skip sleep, and I could just do no sleep, it wouldn’t affect me, I do that because that’s the level of mission I feel. But now, in that scenario, sleep is almost the enemy. Rest is it’s just that, is that a necessary evil. But in listening to you talk about what you’ve learned over time, suddenly, I can see that rest is absolutely critical to the mission. It’s a mission critical element, not a necessary evil. If you get beyond a certain point, at first, it’s a little fatigue,

then it gets deeper, eventually you can be on the edge of burnout, or in fact burnout altogether. Suddenly, you say the mission matters so much. I, I’ve got to operate in a way that I can never burn out no matter what comes up. And that seems to change the conversation, at least for me a little bit. Your thoughts?

John Hope Bryant

Yes, plus, saying more than that. I’m saying that the conscious mind is what you do, you’re conscious when you’re awake. And that’s when you’re talking. you’re pouring into the world. But the unconscious mind in my opinion is the mind of God. The unconscious mind feeds you your feet in the world when you’re talking. the unconscious mind feeds you when you’re sleeping, and when you’re resting. That’s why meditation is so powerful. I mean, meditation is a form of rest. reflection is a form of rest. Yoga is a form of rest. In a in a strange way. Exercise is a form of rest, as written as a form of renewal, which is a first cousin to rest. So I’m going to go out this weekend hopefully, and go off roading on a form of competitive racing license on road and I have a got some off road vehicles. Gonna go off roading. Well, that’s a form of renewal for me, even though I’m extra even I’m exerting myself. I’m also renewing myself. I’m using different muscles not using intellectual muscles, I’m using intuitive muscles, I’m not using mental muscles, I’m using physical muscles I’m breathing, not air conditioning, I’m breathing, you know, God’s air. I’m communing, not with people on zooms I’m communing with nature. I’m not in charge of anything. Whereas in my daily life, I’m in charge of too many things. It’s it creates a humility. It renews the humility, the balance, going back to that word balance.

Greg McKeown

There’s something else you just said you gave some great examples of some renewing activities through your life. But then you also upped the ante about sleep in making it a divine experience in saying it’s not just even physical renewal. It’s actually a place where you’re going to get fed insight. Even if you don’t wake up knowing what it is you know that that process is restoring you more than physically it’s restoring you spiritually as well. That’s what I heard you say again, I think there’s something coming out of this conversation where Rest is more than I mean, we can say it’s a necessary evil, then we can say, well, maybe it’s helpful in maintaining the energy to, to succeed at the mission. But now there’s another element here, which is actually it’s divinely given. It’s part of it’s direct part of the

mission. That’s what I just heard in you, which is, again, a little different than where we began thoughts.

John Hope Bryant

Yes, more. So I believe that we’re not human beings having a spiritual experience. I believe that we are spiritual beings having a human experience. And that energy matters. Connection is everything. And the most the greatest compliment in that regard is when you tell somebody else I see you you’re saying, I asked you physically but your soul, your spirit, I’m looking your eyes and seeing your soul I can feel you. We then realize we’re not Chinese and Korean and American and Nigerian and Mexican, we’re just all, we’re not white, we’re not black. We’re not Republicans, we’re not Democrats were, we’re God’s child. We’re one family, we just happen to be separated by historic shifts and tectonic plates that moved continents into separate pieces separated by water. If you step back from the globe, you’ll see that those plates fit back directly completely, because they were once one. It was mankind that created countries and cities and provinces, not God. We’re all one. 99.9% of all human DNA is precisely the same racism stupid. It’s scientifically stupid. So we, you know, why am I darker? Because the sun is more direct and Africa Why? Why is my lighter because I lighted The sun is less direct than Europe, which is where Europeans hell came from, and I’m primarily from Africa. But when you look at my mixed-up DNA, God in the sense of humor, me 1%, Cameroon, DNA, African 26%, European, white, the rest is Asian, Indian and others. We’re just sort of all looking for love and all the wrong places, and to a certain degree having a variation of stupid conversations, and we just need to knock it off.

Greg McKeown

Yeah, you’re saying that there’s a lot of you saying there’s a lot of noise and clutter between people that’s just so useless, unhelpful. But I think the connection point that you were making was between this idea of sleep, not only asleep as a spiritual experience, just life is a spiritual experience and that’s how you’re seeing. That is how you’re seeing life is as a spiritual mission. To be able to bless God’s children that’s what I hear.

John Hope Bryant

Yeah, he put us here to do good, he put us here to save this planet, he put us here to, to, to be mature, to be thoughtful, to be to be responsible and to fight against

evil. And the battle is already stacked, isn’t designed for us to win because darkness only has definition because of light. Badness is failed goodness. Are we just getting up and going to work and you know, having dinner and having fun and going to sleep and getting up the next day and doing the same thing or does the universe know your footprints, does the universe know you were here because you leaned up beside yourself, and leaned into someone else to help them stand up? What have you done for somebody other than yourself, this is what’s gonna help the world remember you? I do see this in spiritual dimensions. But it’s not. It’s not some heavy thing. I just think that to me spirituality, sort of like math. Math doesn’t have an opinion. And just, it just is and I think spirituality just is I mean, how do you mean love, charity, compassion, joy, tolerance, voice, you know, dignity, fair play, empathy, love. You can’t you can’t touch these things, here. But they’re everything. Yes. But the things we obsess about the things we can touch, which have little meaning, without the meaning the things that you can’t touch?

Greg McKeown

Yes and it seems to me that if you if you can take highly enthusiastic people, and just make them just do a bit more than they’re actually being asked to do today, bit more than they’re supposed to do that I don’t mean someone who’s, who’s lazy isn’t doing anything. I mean, somebody who’s already enthusiastic. The word enthusiasm, of course, comes from the Latin n and p meaning and is within and theories God so enthusiasm means God within us. And that’s what I hear in you, as you are describing it that way. And I wonder whether it would be quite a clever approach to say, take that enthusiasm, don’t stand in his way. Just say keep running, keep going beyond the right limit, beyond the the wise approach. And so with that in mind, I wonder, what’s the Delta for you? Like originally you answered this question with the word rest. What how much more rest would help you to feel like you were you were sort of back in just in that prime sweet spot. I don’t get the sense. It’s a huge difference for you, but there’s a certain amount, what is it? How much more Is it is it is it X amount, half an hour more sleep per day, an hour more. What is the Delta that would help keep you in your prime peak condition?

John Hope Bryant

Well it’s either an hour more sleep, or it’s two more two hours’ worth of additional wellness. So I do both. You know, it’s about renewing your body and

your soul, the spirit and getting yourself in better shape and yourself better with a better diet and yourself with a clear head getting the toxicity out of your life, moving the toxic people out of your life and not having stupid arguments with stupid people about stupid things stepping over math, not in it. It’s about clarity of thought, clarity of vision, clarity and mission. It’s about it smiling, laughing, having light moments. It’s about reading as a reflection. And then you do all that you probably require less sleep. If you are depressed all day, you probably need more sleep. If you in fact, if you’re depressed and distressed all day, you probably want to sleep all day. I like being stretched.

Greg McKeown

Even now what I hear is a sort of resistance within you to go. I don’t know about this extra hour, I probably need it. But I’m not sure I want to do that because the mission is so important to me. And that’s what I hear is this, this tension between on the one hand you go I can feel the strain being probably a little too much. But on the other hand, you go but I’m not sure I want to give it up. I’m not sure I want to give up an extra hour of doing the work for an extra hour of sleep. That’s what I hear.

John Hope Bryant

Well, again, it’s more it’s suffering for the good that you know, there is no growth without legitimate suffering. I should be uncomfortable, Greg. I should be a little a little exhausted. I should be a little worn out. I shift my lead my reach should exceed my grass. I should be challenged. I should feel a little guilty. I should feel a little responsible. I mean, I’m sitting here. I mean, I grew up in Compton, California. Really anybody done any research on me knows my story. I was homeless because in my life, you know, witness to deaths murders before me. I was nine years old all that, all that, all that. It really frustrating upbringing, homeless, all that. But today, I’m flossing pretty well, I mean, I’m sitting here in my 13 acres with a trail in the back and I got a family in a you know, I’m in a stable environment. And I’m not worried about a meal every day. I mean, I should, I should be uncomfortable, because so many people are not comfortable. It so I think it’s I think when people say, Oh, I’m just comfortable. I’m like, well, what are you bragging about that? I mean, get to work, be uncomfortable, extend yourself, help somebody else. I just I think too much too many of us are comfortable. We are sitting in our comfort zones, nobody changes. When there’s when they’re when they’re comfortable. They change when they’re uncomfortable. But it’s all

that constantly your reaches, should exceed your grasp in a way that is meaningful. If you’re extending yourself in a way that’s selfish versus selfless, you’re not gonna get a return on that investment. If you’re extending yourself in a way that is transactional versus relationship, building relationship capital, you’re not going to get a return on investment. To me, I just see life as a series of software upgrades. But you’re building on something that has a foundation that allows you to rest on it. So that when you get up the next day, the wall is taller, the wall is thicker, the wall is firmer, you’re building something and not treading water. My rest is different. And in these for me, it’s a and it’s in, it’s tied to me catapulting myself to a software upgrade.

Greg McKeown

What’s the upgrade in that metaphor, what is what is the upgrade?

John Hope Bryant

Better, stronger, wiser, thicker, longer, better, better relationship capital, bigger ability to scale, bigger ability. When I have a meeting now, the meetings I had today, this week, any one of these meetings that could change the landscape for 100 million Americans, any one of the meetings I’ve had this week? Well, you know, five years ago, I might have had one of those meetings in a year. 10 years ago, I had one of those meetings in a decade. 25 years ago, I never had one of those meetings.

Greg McKeown

You’re saying that cumulative addition, that little bit better day after day, it hasn’t just worked in a linear way. It has multiplied itself many times over. And you’re just starting to see even some of that exponential curve.

John Hope Bryant

And that is why I stay up so much. And why would I want every moment to count because I think I’m at that inflection point that I’m close to, I can smell feel taste, I’m at a tipping point. And that’s when you should be running out of gas by the way.

Greg McKeown

What you’re saying is that in this moment, you know, some moments in life, it’s okay to be imbalanced in the short term to be balanced in the long term?

John Hope Bryant

I’m saying that you’re right now I should be unbalanced.

Greg McKeown

Yeah, you’re saying that you won’t get this moment. Again, this is a unique moment. And you need to be fully here so that it you can make the contribution that is possible, possibly only in this time and season, this unique, perfect storm that is happening all around you.

John Hope Bryant

For me, I’m on this is only my answers, nobody else’s. What I’m saying is, if you don’t know what you’re willing to die for, you aren’t fit to live. I’m saying that you’ve got to overcome your to quote Dr. King “your fear of death of your love of money.” You got to overcome it in order to be free. And, and you got to walk we got to run into the burning house, not away from it. And that has to be instinctive, instinctual, impulsive, of immediate, it has to be who you are. You got to become reasonably comfortable in your own skin. And that comes with series, a series of software upgrades that comes with time and wisdom experiences and from leaning in.

Greg McKeown

How does somebody manage this so it isn’t addiction work? Being a workaholic could match all the descriptions you’ve said even in the name of a very worthy causes. Somebody could burn themselves out unnecessarily unwisely, how does somebody get the right balance?

John Hope Bryant

You can’t burn yourself out if enlightenment comes from within you, again, we think people are looking for love in all the wrong places. You’ve got to become reason in mind, this is just my view. You got to become reasonably comfortable in your own skin. If I don’t like me, I’m not gonna like you. If I don’t feel good about me, how am I gonna ever feel good about you? I don’t love me. How do I even have a clue how to love you. If I don’t respect me, don’t expect me to respect you. If you have confidence, which is how you lean into the world, as long as you have competence. And if you have a hole inside of your self-esteem, you can work yourself into it to oblivion because you can become a workaholic in that example,

because you’re trying to constantly prove something to the outside world. You’re happy when somebody celebrates you, you’re unhappy when somebody criticizes you. That’s a prescription for insanity. But joy comes from the inside Greg, you’ll never be and joyful, you can be happy and joyful, and happy and joyful. Once you understand what joy is, you’ll never be unjoyful. A days I’m on I’m unhappy many days where I’m saddened by what happened many days where I’m disappointed. Many days where I’m frustrated, disappointed in myself, but I’m not unjoyful. That light inside of me that illumination, the wisdom, the reasonable, comfortable and comfort of my own skin, of loving myself holding complete, warts and all. It’s constant.

Greg McKeown

Yeah, it’s not dependent on the public victories or the public noise, public criticism, it’s something internal, the light is from within, and is, is able to propel you forward.

John Hope Bryant

I’m really one for self-actualization and self-reliance. I don’t rely on other people to do anything for me other than light the fuse, I believe in the James Brown version of affirmative action. Open the door, I’ll get it myself. And I’ve been that way since I was a kid. My mother told me she loved me every day of my life to give her credit for that. So my self-esteem came from her doing that but I remember this banker lit my fuse and I was done I went home and open up a dictionary back then it wasn’t the internet, the dictionary looked at the word entrepreneur a French word create value something from nothing you know and build wealth by creating something the world’s never seen before, etc. Like I want to do that self-reliance, self-employed, create your own income, create your own enterprise, my god that that’s me all day.

Greg McKeown

And that was after learning the word entrepreneur. I mean, that was a proceeding thing. You learned the word and then you were like, Okay, I’m going to try and figure out how to do that thing. And, and so this after you touch this, after you taste it? As soon as somebody has been an entrepreneur when they young as soon as they can feel the power of seeing a need, buying the product or the service, giving it out as soon as someone’s experienced the end to end thing I think there’s no going back.

John Hope Bryant

Correct.

Greg McKeown

Because you say you say this this is the way to do this. This is this is the way up the way out all of it.

John Hope Bryant

A rubber band once expanded never returns was original size.

Greg McKeown

There’s obviously a connection for you between that first experience, both with the banker in school and then the first business and of course cost there’s a whole journey in between. But if you fast forward that to the start of Operation Hope, you are trying to do for other people what that banker in a way unintentionally, did for you by bringing financial literacy to people who otherwise simply won’t, won’t be given that knowledge, that understanding and therefore have those options.

John Hope Bryant

Precisely right.

Greg McKeown

And what do you see as the primary things the most essential things to teach to someone whether they’re in an inner-city area, which I’m sure is the primary kind of target group. But for anybody who’s trying to teach, I mean, everyone wants to teach their children basic financial literacy. What should people learn first?

John Hope Bryant

That you are somebody that math does not having an opinion that anybody can raise their credit score. Ultimately the color is green. So whether it’s a nice discriminate against you, because you’re black, or Latino, or white, or poor white, or you’re female, you can level the playing field with green. That anybody can build, that anybody can master compounded hustle that everything around us a financial transaction, everything around you involves economics and money. And you need to master it. And you can then you put the same energy on that as you

do on dating somebody or what food you are going to eat tonight? What music you love, what sport you want to master, you put as much energy in economics in the sciences that you’ll become the NBA of finance, the Michael Jordan of Finance. And it’s just math. It’s, it’s, it’s straight ahead. So it’s doable, it’s achievable. And everybody else has, who is used as model around the world to uplift a race or people or a household is work for them. So why can’t it work for black people as an example? Of course it can’t we just never tried it, at scale.

Greg McKeown

Yeah, you’re saying that the other interventions that have been made, have generally not emphasized this. And you’re saying this is actually one of the really important things that, of course, work for you. But you’ve now seen it work for many, many other people, as you’ve extended these programs into millions of people now that you’ve been able to impact, you say, look, you’ve got to actually teach this process, you’ve got to teach this information, you cannot take it for granted that people know this stuff. And all they need is their traditional subjects in a school that isn’t going to do it. You need to actually teach financial literacy. Otherwise, people will grow with a sense of what you’re either rich or you’re poor, and there’s nothing you can do about it.

John Hope Bryant

Yes, and they’re worse, I think this, they’ll assume that the game is rigged, rigged against their success. Because if people think I’m walking, if I’m not successful, then that must means you’re a crook. And, and it may just mean that just what you don’t know that you don’t know this killing you. But you think you know that you thought you understood this game, but actually, you’re never taught the game.

Greg McKeown

Yeah, it was something that something was so powerful, what you’re saying is that in any, in any relationship, there’s really three people, there’s person A, person B, and then the system. And in this case, you’re saying, if you don’t know this the system, or you believe the system is inherently out to get you, then then you will be at a disadvantage because you think the whole thing is deliberately trying to get you and distrust people, you’ll distrust systems, you’ll distrust institutions, you’re saying, all of that can be minimized. All of that can be reduced, or at least or even eliminated by simply teaching people how to play the game.

John Hope Bryant

Absolutely. That’s why that’s why we focus on hope inside. That’s what we focus on raising credit scores. That’s what we’re focused on creating homeowners and small business owners at scale. That’s what we have offices in 25 states now commitments in 25 states, 456 locations and growing. That’s why we want to become the Starbucks of financial inclusion. That’s why we want to come to Walmart of economic empowerment. That’s why we want to continue the work of Dr. King of 1968 in the poor people’s campaign, and more notably, the Freedmen’s Bank of 1865 from Abraham Lincoln, because the memo has never been given at scale to people, to African American people in particular, but the Native American Indians never got the memo. poor whites never got the memo. It’s worked for everybody else, but people who were never taught to be industrious, never inspired to have their self-esteem enriched, never taught the math of how the money works, how wealth income inequality, it’s our wealth in entrepreneurship.

Greg McKeown

If you haven’t been taught that, then then you know you, you’re at such a disadvantage. And you can go through not just one lifetime, but generations of believing that not only there’s nothing you can do about it, you’re just stuck. It’s like you are going to be pushed down, you’re going to be oppressed. And you’re saying that that is a way to solve this. You just got to not assume that people know this, and they’re just choosing not to do anything about it.

John Hope Bryant

Correct, you’re going to be more than oppressed you’re going to be pimped. I mean, if you go into inner city neighborhoods today or poor white neighborhoods, you see a check cashier next to a payday loan lender next to a rental store next to a title lender next to a liquor store. They’re all just preying on, on folks who never got the memo.

Greg McKeown

There’s a family that I’ve spent some time working with who would fit the description as you’re laying out. And one of the things that, that I have learned, but also have wanted to point out to a team of people around them trying to help is that is that they will not make decisions, this family that we’re trying to support

will not make decisions, the way that the people trying to help them will make decisions at first, because they simply don’t have the options in their heads. Once you learn these things, once you have some financial literacy, you just know, there’s possibilities that didn’t exist before. I know there’s a there’s a book that I was just reading, it’s, it’s, it’s talking about the rust belt. And these generations that have been left behind this is hillbilly elegy. And, and in that he talks about how it was only as he went into the military, that they literally took him through a set of processes that included going and buying a car, because he went and he just I think he actually bought it or it was about to a 21% interest rate, you know, whatever. I mean, he had no idea at all, that really what an interest rate was or that there were, there were options, or it could be negotiated, different places would offer different amount. I mean, he just didn’t know that. And for someone who does know that it’s so like, it’s like fish discovering water last. They just understand that and they just sort of think everybody understands that, well, if you have not been taught it. And if you’re in a community or environment where no one around you knows it, and all of the institutions exactly as you’re describing are not teaching you that in fact, they are as you say, preying on your ignorance that you don’t know it, well you this can go on for generations. And of course, this is what gives you such fire for the deed is because you know, I hear I have so to speak the cure for cancer. And in here, I see people still dying of cancer. I have got to do something about this. I will I will do something about it.

John Hope Bryant

Amen.

Greg McKeown

You remind me a little of William Lloyd Garrison, who wrote poetically beautifully in the first edition of the anti-slavery paper The Liberator. He said I am in earnest. I will not equivocate I will not take back a single step and I will be hurt this is the fire that you are operating with this is what it’s about for you. This is why you cannot rest

John Hope Bryant

This is why I will get just enough rest before I get back to work

Greg McKeown

Listen what an interesting conversation I so applaud what you’re doing I how for those listening that want to support and help with Operation Hope what where should they go, what should they do?

John Hope Bryant

Then go to OperationHope.org and make a contribution to our work and become a member of Operation Hope at OperationHope.org. If they can they don’t have money they can make they can go to HopeCommitments.org and make a commitment to teach financial literacy in their school, mosque, synagogue, boys and girls club, church, neighborhoods, neighborhood whatever club. They can make a commitment to mentor somebody, intern somebody, apprenticeship for somebody. You can design your own community uplift commitment at hopecommitments.org. The easiest thing is they can sign up to our newsletter sign up at either OperationHope.org or JohnHopeBryant.com or just follow the social media handles of Operation Hope and John Hope Bryant on all channels. We have about 2 million followers I do on social so far in the last three years or so and about 100 million video views of the videos I try to do every week to empower people. It’s sort of like an opensource university and will soon have a personal channel where we will domicile a lot of the data, the analytics, the articles, the podcast like this interviews that we do. So that there’s a one stop shop for everybody who needs to be inspired on a daily basis.

Greg McKeown

John Hope Bryant, I am trying to christen you, Dr. Hope here for the great work that you’re doing. Thank you so much for being on the Essentialism podcast.

John Hope Bryant

My pleasure, God bless you. Thanks for thanks for all that you do to uplift humanity.