Speakers

Greg McKeown Jay Papasan


Transcript

Greg McKeown   

Jay Papasan, it is a pleasure to have you on the What’s Essential podcast. You have spent years now, after having written “The One Thing,” helping people to focus on what is important. I feel in some ways that we’ve lived, I suspect, somewhat parallel lives. And of course, we’ve spoken before on your excellent The One Thing podcast. Welcome to the show.

Jay Papasan     

Thank you so much for having me. And I’ll just echo that. I mean, I stumbled onto your book, because so many people were reading our books together because they are highly compatible, and synergistic in themes and an execution.

Greg McKeown     

That’s been one of the funniest things for me about starting this podcast at all has been talking with people who I’ve known previously only by rumor. People read Essentialism, then they read that book, then they all talk about it, it’s almost like we should know each other. Because in their minds, they have a relationship with these different authors. But actually, we don’t always know each other. And so, it’s nice to have an excuse to do that.

Jay Papasan     

I don’t know, if you read your audible book or not, we actually hired someone who actually knows how to read to do ours, you of course have a charming voice.

Greg McKeown     

Well, that’s nice of you to say, I did read my own for good or ill.

Jay Papasan   

Good, good. But I do think a lot of people assume that’s my or Gary’s voice. And I don’t know about you. But when I read a book, even I hear a voice in my head. And so I always think about someone reading your book, they’ve essentially been having a four to six hour the size of our books conversation in their head with us. And that’s a very intimate journey. And it people often when they we do meet with readers, there’s a sense of knowing each other kind of one way, but they’ve been having a conversation with our work in their heads. And that’s a very interesting thing that to happen. So I’m triangulating now, I had a conversation with you, and I read your book, without even knowing you. And then I got to meet you and see the alignment.

Greg McKeown     

Well, and a book is not an entirely dead thing, as it even sits on a shelf. But then somebody else brings the other part of the conversation. And so they’re the ones that breathed the rest of the life in. But it’s this oddity really, because you don’t know the other half of the story. And they’re bringing their meaning in. And they’re having this relationship with your ideas. 

Jay Papasan      

One of the intersections that happened, and this would have been around the fall of 2015, I chatted, or I heard about a business owner, he ran a training company that read The One Thing and then Essentialism. And when it out and sold his business as a result. I heard this and I was like, and it was a very successful business, I don’t have his permission to say, but suffice it to say it was like a five to 10 million revenue kind of business, very successful. And he sold it almost immediately. So I ended up interviewing him, privately, I just like, I want to know what happened in your conversation with our books. And it was very, it was very cool. And the foundation, we take a while to get there. But the one thing, a lot of it’s about productivity, and how you can focus your efforts to get more impact. But under all of it is this idea of purpose, and that’s that resonates very strongly in your book.  

Greg McKeown     

I want to just cut through to what I think is the essence of the one thing. You have a focusing question?

Jay Papasan  

Yes.

Greg McKeown     

And I wonder if you could tell us what it is, what it’s designed to do, and what it keeps you from doing?

Jay Papasan  

A wonderful question. The focusing question is I kind of think the beating heart at the center of the book. And it’s kind of where the ideas meet practical application. It’s a little bit wordy. But it goes like this, what’s the one thing I can do such that by doing it, everything else would be easier or unnecessary? So, in effect, you’re asking, what’s the action that you can currently you’re able to take, not a word could or should, it’s a can. And a singular, that would have the most impact towards the thing you’re trying to do. And as wordy as it is, it’s very specific, and it leads people to a very narrow path. I can tell you, when we were writing the book, I worried a little bit that people wouldn’t know the answer. And my discovery over the years has been when people stopped to ask the question, most people immediately recognize their answer, or something so close to it to be practically there. And they actually often feel guilty because they’ve been neglecting it. And so the AHA is, most people actually do know their priorities, but they’re so busy. And they don’t have a mechanism for identifying it on a regular basis. They neglect them. And so that is the idea. It’s not the biggest mistake people have with our book is they read the one thing and they laugh and go, yeah, there’s always a lot of stuff, how could you have one thing? It doesn’t mean the only thing. It’s really about priority, which roots are in first. What is your number one, the first domino of many? So it enables us to take that first most consequential action, that often leads to all the other stuff. And it doesn’t mean you’re saying no to everything else. It’s more than not now, because right now, I’m reading to my child, I’m gonna say no to my phone. Right now, I’m on date night with my wife, so I’m going to sit with my back to the restaurant, so I won’t be tempted to look at the sports scores on the TV, right? I am going to say no to things. And it’s more about in this moment, I can only truly focus on one thing and need to know what that is. And other things will come when it’s appropriate time. Does that make sense kind of being appropriate in the moment?

Greg McKeown     

It does. And I think that what you’re saying is that, forget branding, what the one thing book is, is really the first thing book.

Jay Papasan      

Yes. If you can launch your days, with a very mean small investment of time around your actual priorities in different areas of your life, people would be surprised at how much progress they can make over time. And you’ve interviewed many successful people, I think we get this idea that these people are almost robots, they’re so disciplined all the time. In my experience, the most successful people in the world just have a really great day before noon. They understand what their priorities are, and they kind of knock them out first.

Greg McKeown     

You’re saying if you can figure out a few things that are going to move the needle and get those done before all the other competing activities come in your way, you can actually have quite a relaxing schedule and still break through to the next level.

Jay Papasan     

And I think that could show up as relaxing. What I find is that when we put the energy in the things that matter most, it kind of dictates the rest of your priority. So the day kind of takes care of itself. If I get my writing done early as a writer, then I have a guilt free ability to read and maybe absorb more ideas in the afternoon knowing that that thing is done. If I get up in the morning, which I try to do with my wife and put in a really strong workout. I just ate before we get on this phone like my prepackaged lunch that I make on Sundays to try to be healthy. But if I cheat and have a cheeseburger, but I know I did 50 burpees this morning, I’m okay with it. I kind of did the thing that was most important in that category in my mind, and that gives me a little bit more freedom for the rest of my time.

Greg McKeown     

What are some of the real-life examples of how someone might use the focusing question? So specifically, coming back to that, what you called the beating heart of the book, how have you seen people actually use that question?

Jay Papasan     

A huge percentage of the people that we work with, and we hear from are either self-employed, or running a business. So entrepreneur, as a broad envelope. And if you’re running a business, you have many, many, many things competing for your attention, and a lot of them are screaming very loud. Because a business, especially a young business, you’ve got mean, we call them competing priorities for a reason. I come from the philosophy, that the one thing for almost every business out there is customer acquisition, we call it lead generation, prospecting, marketing, whatever label. But if you don’t have enough customers to hit your goals, the best product or service in the world is kind of irrelevant. And so that’s one of the ways it shows up. So we have to get the cart in front of the horse, are we doing the work we need to do to have customers before we focus on how effectively we can service them? And so it actually speaks to this idea of can you be singular minded about something and continue to build momentum, so that either on your path to mastery, you get more impact from your actions, or the machine itself grows? That’s when things really get extraordinary at their highest level.

Greg McKeown     

The Domino metaphor is such a strong one. The idea of first slowly, then suddenly as being that build up before the breakthrough is a necessary condition in order to be able to become very successful. f I were to ask you the question, what’s the one thing you can do. So by doing it, everything else will be either easier or unnecessary, like right now in your life, what would your answer be?

Jay Papasan     

So maybe the only page in my book that actually I have memorized, and we only have a hardcover edition. So, it’s page 114 of the American edition, we talked about the seven areas of your life you could choose to apply this approach. It’s not just a business thing. So it could apply to your spiritual health, your physical health, you know, so on so forth. So my wife and I, as a family, we’ve systematically asked that question, and tried to build rituals or habits to make those really important things happen consistently in our lives. So an example of that. We had two kids 16 months apart, and our second one was colicky. And for two young professionals trying to make it in the world and launching a publishing business, and she was launching a real estate business, it was not maybe the happiest moment in our marriage, wasn’t a lot of time for romance.

Greg McKeown     

Feels like quite a lot underneath that. That quite general description you just gave there, not the happiest time.

Jay Papasan     

That’s the honest truth. We tease ourselves. But that’s a period, I mean for the propagation of the species. I mean, I love my kids. But I also acknowledge, just like the marriage, it’s hard work. So yeah, it was tough. But I think it was Gary, my partner said, have y’all thought about getting a babysitter and just doing date night? Instead of just making it an event, like how could we make this something that we did regularly. So for over 10 years, we’ve consistently gone on date night on Wednesday nights. And my wife likes to say we’ve had at least 500 dates over the last 10 years because we’re that consistent. And the people in our lives have been trained just like wait it’s Wednesday, what are y’all doing for date night?  Little interesting during the pandemic, because we didn’t really go out that much. But we try and still do it. But it became a habit like we built a ritual. So that this thing, that moment that in all of our busy lives, busy lives, that we had a very purposeful reason to connect, and it just be about us. 

Greg McKeown     

Help me apply the question to me, you game for that, to coach me through it?

Jay Papasan     

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, you just have to name an area of your life, you’re trying to do something in, and we can then play the game. 

Greg McKeown      

Okay so that’s important, too. Because I remember in the book that there are the seven different areas. And that itself could be overwhelming. But you’re saying like there’s a pre step to this question. And that’s choose an area, choose a theme to focus on at first. How should somebody choose which of the areas they should focus on first?

Jay Papasan      

I usually have people do a little exercise, right? It’s very easy and very quick. And they could do it while they’re listening to it, just write categories. There’s seven; spiritual life, physical health, personal life that’s like kind of your hobbies, right? Key relationships, then you would have job. If you own a business that makes this one optional. Business and then finances, and we kind of thought about them in that order. If we only got one of those, right, I would hope that our spiritual journey would be a strong one. And then you can work your way around the circles. 

Greg McKeown      

So you’re already effectively prioritizing that. That’s the assumption that you have is that that’s the order somebody should work on.

Jay Papasan     

That is our assumption, and I will say it’s deeply personal. It’s what we believe, but it’s going to be someone else’s choice.

Greg McKeown     

So now, after you write the list down, so I’ve done that. Now how, how should I go through, what’s the exercise in selecting which one to focus on?

Jay Papasan     

Super simple, I would ask you to rate each of those areas on a scale of one to 10, with 10 just being off the charts wonderful. And one being maybe you should be thrown in jail for how bad you’re doing it. Right, so that’s your just a 10 point scale. And there’s no science behind that. That’s just what came to mind. But without giving it like a lot of thought don’t need to pull out a spreadsheet, just intuitively rate yourself from one to 10 on each of those areas.

Greg McKeown     

Okay, I’m doing that right now. 

Jay Papasan   

Yep. I’ll give you a moment.

Greg McKeown     

Okay, so I’ve done that.

Jay Papasan   

And so, I usually ask people, now you have kind of a, a dashboard for all the big areas of your life, what jumps out at you. And in my experience, if you have you ask people to choose one, and it’s called the one thing like don’t start addressing six areas at once. Pick one and let’s fight that battle first. Most people in my experience will pick either a high number that they want to sharpen and make better, but most frequently, they’ll find the three an area that’s causing them some pain. So I would ask you when you look at those circles, which one do you think is your area of greatest opportunity?

Greg McKeown     

Well, I’m fairly pleased with the, the results when I look at them, my lowest score is impersonal. But that’s because you mentioned the word hobbies. And my investment generally is in, you know, is in family, work, church, community. I mean, there’s like that. So hobbies are, I don’t feel like I have too many hobbies outside of those commitments.

Jay Papasan      

For some people, they would say their work is their hobby. And that that is a joyous place to be like where they get genuine joy from their work.

Greg McKeown    

I do feel that, but I’m not sure I should be let off the hook that easily. Maybe there is something to be said about having more time. So one of the things that is a hobby for me is tennis. I’m no, I’m no good at it. But I like to play I like to play with my son, I like to play with others before COVID. So that would be an example of something that I’ve been surprised at how much less of that I’ve done over the last few months when I actually, at least theoretically could have done it. So that that would be one area.

Jay Papasan     

Like you think of me time for you? What is me time for Greg. And if it’s private, you don’t have to share it, I just want you to think of it. You know, I love to get in the outdoors. I love to read I have about three or four things that would classify as hobby that I do, surely for me, and it fills me up.

Greg McKeown     

Then I probably honestly, I’d probably give myself a bit higher score than I gave myself because if I’m expanding it in the way you’re describing, I would say, well, my wife and I go on a walk every day for an hour. And we really do it now every day. We used to do it more like Monday through Friday. But then we realized, well, even in the weekend, it’s just it’s so useful and good for us. And we’re out in nature. And we and we’re really doing that now. And that itself is feeding, that is a healthy thing. We of course, there’s more things that that we could do if we all had unlimited time. But the area that I would say the area that’s causing me the most time burden and tension is actually in the business area. 

Jay Papasan  

Oh, okay.

Greg McKeown     

Because so I still actually feel pretty good about things. But there’s a whole series of things that I’m building on. I mean, it’s a perfect example of sort of buildup and versus breakthrough that we were talking about before. So there’s a few things that I’ve been investing on simultaneously. And some days, I think, well, maybe I’m not being sufficiently essentialist about it. But for example, the you know, you just mentioned there’s only a hard-back version of The One Thing and that’s been true for Essentialism, until this December, when the paperback version will come out. And people will be able to access the, you know, the first chapter of a new book that I just finished over the last few months. So the new book comes out in April. The paperback version comes with a 21-day Essentialism challenge. And that will also have video components. So for the first time ever, I’ve expanded beyond this very simplified, you know, doing, I have the book and I do keynotes and some interviews, and that’s my simplified life that just really works. Well now it’s expanding beyond that. And there’s a whole series of projects that I am working on. But when you ask the question, what’s the one thing I could do such as by doing it, everything else would be either easier or unnecessary? I actually do have a moment of blank. That doesn’t mean I don’t think it’s a good question. I think it’s a terrific question. But I don’t have this immediate feeling of I know the answer.

Jay Papasan     

So we address that, that happens. Like the joke is like when you don’t know the answer your one thing is to go get it. Usually becomes reading a book because you’re not the first person who’s faced this right.

Greg McKeown   

So help me help me to do it though.

Jay Papasan     

Right. So I would ask, who like I would make a short list I go to who, you might go to where. But where, or who could you reach out to? Like, could you go to a book as a source? Could you research this in such a way who else has faced a similar challenge, and was successful, that you could figure out how they navigated it?

Greg McKeown    

Okay, so So if I’m actually answering that question, I think, well, I could talk to I could certainly talk to my wife and create more space to strategize this question. I mean, this morning, when we were on a walk, we were both talking about this. Anna has been on podcast with me a couple of times, and we’re about to do another interview. But this time co-hosting it together interviewing Josh Shipp, who we both really respected, great, the teenager whisperer. So we’re, we’re in concert, constantly talking about these things. But we could do better in creating set time, generous amounts of time, to really wrestle with the strategy of all of these different component parts. When we do that, when we’ve created space before the answers come, and then we’re very unified to those answers. And then, frankly, it’s like miracles start to happen. So that’s one answer to the question that you just mentioned, what else would you do coach me through it? I mean, I’m genuinely wanting you to use your, your, your big brain genius to help me figure out the one thing. 

Jay Papasan     

There’s lots of like, follow up. Are you worried that you won’t be successful in the business initiatives or that as you lean into them, it’s going to mess up all of the other things? So when you say that this thinking time with your wife, which I love that answer, I got chills when you were sharing it. And how y’all can just create space to strategize together, how that often leads to the solution. So that is a candidate just in itself. But I would ask the clarifying question, is your anxiety around the business circle around we have these new initiatives they’re starting, and I’m worried that I’m not doing something that will make them successful, or that I’m pretty confident I’m going to go do that stuff, but it might then really throw everything else out of balance, or both, I guess, would be another.

Greg McKeown  

You know, I want to answer that good question. But I want to share something else first, which is, there was a thought that came to me this morning when I was thinking about this question that I just forgotten about. But one of the answers that came was you just need to relax. Like the one thing you need to do that, that would make everything else easier, or unnecessary, is relax. I feel this sense of so, so much left to do. And so it’s an interesting tension, because I think if I could just relax a bit, enjoy the journey, it’s all going to work out, there’s going to be these next levels of contribution, and impact. So just enjoy it.

Jay Papasan     

So you’ve got two wonderful candidates that based on your past experience. The first one is something that is easier to work with as an I could schedule this sort of space with my wife. I, you know, Keith Cunningham might call it thinking time, like where we have regular doses of time to address the challenges as they come and kind of mastermind our solutions. So that could be one that would be the way I usually we coach people to write them down not as outcome statements, but as action statements, because that tends to be a little bit more instructive. If we focus on the activity, the outcomes tend to happen.

Greg McKeown     

Well, and I need to clarify too, because I don’t mean go and relax. We’ve actually built in, in fact, the episode that I just did with Anna on the podcast was about some of the things we had done to relax after had just finished the new book. And that time was so valuable and so great. And we do have some good practices daily practices to relax as well. So it’s not, it’s a more to do with now it could be more meditation could help. But it’s more to do with the ongoing experience that that you say, how can you not lose the intensity, the desire, but that you enjoy the experience as you go more? As you I mean, for me, I would say, weakness for me is, is impatience. I don’t mean like impatience yelling at people. I don’t mean that sort of impatience. I just mean, the sense I mentioned before, you’re behind. You know, what I think it is, is when you’re trying to be accelerate something that’s already happening.

Jay Papasan     

So that’s very common with entrepreneurs and business people, right? They are, by large an impatient bunch. I would probably, like identify if I’m not mistaking some of what you’re saying, like when I interpret that for me, I tend to live in the future and that I’m always looking for the next thing. And I’m looking to the horizon. And when I look to the past, it’s more to find out how I can do the future better. But if they just have moment to prepare, then they can relax and be present. Like there’s different interpretations for different people.

Greg McKeown     

Well, let me let me tell you then. So for me, it’s not like if my wife was here, right now she’d go well, it’s not really planning and forecasting. That’s not really it. She’s always had foresight, that’s really strong in terms of anticipating specifics, and so she wants to make a plan because she can see around corners in in all sorts of ways. Anna and I were just talking, and I said something out loud, and she’s like, oh, that names something so true. And I said, people wouldn’t know about me, that I was not, I’m not the kind of person who is likely to have got an undergraduate degree, and then gone on to do a Master’s at Stanford, and then go on to write books, like this something that the sense of mission is there. But actually, the idea of that formal process and do this the way that, you know, you have to jump through a lot of hoops to do everything I just mentioned. And none of that comes natural to me. So, so for me, I, and this, I think relates to the impatience is, is that I have no vision of things of how they either will be or I think that’s actually what it is, I was going to say I should be, but that’s not how they feel to me. It’s more like, this is how it will be.

Jay Papasan     

It’s gonna happen, it’s just a matter of time. And can we get there faster?

Greg McKeown  

And so something that’s becoming clear to me as we have this conversation, is that that I think in that is a key for the resolution of the impatience, which is it’s trusting, it’s believing, it’s allowing yourself to believe me, allowing myself to believe what I actually do believe. This is all going to happen so just enjoy the journey. You know, relax a bit into it. Because you don’t have to make it happen in quite the way that sometimes we’re even told we should do things that you’ve got to make it happen, get up and do it. 

Jay Papasan   

So how do you create something in your life that would be a regular reminder of the AHA you just had? Is there a cue that you could put in your environment, right, if you’re like, I know, some people would do like an affirmation. You know, Greg, good morning, it’s going to happen, enjoy the journey, like whatever that is right? Write it down, you write it in your journal, there’s some ritual that allows that escape not to get lost in the impatience or whatever so you can live that moment. 

Greg McKeown     

Yeah, you’re onto something. And I like it, that that I have taught the principle of being in the moment. In fact, it’s something I totally believe what’s important now and to be here, and so on. Nevertheless, if I’m being honest and open about it, when you say that part of the mantra, what it feels like this is for real, this, this is, this is going to be manifest. It might be something like keep believing. You know, like, ready or not, these things are going to come. So just, it’s more like that somehow, something there. Okay, help me help me through it.

Jay Papasan   

So first off, I can see you’re a writer, you’re going to deliberate the words. So don’t rush out and get any of those phrases tattooed anywhere, right? Clearly, you’re gonna have to try it out and practice it. But that’s the beauty of this is it’s not what you could accomplish this, what you can do right now. And so I usually want people to get into action, because it’s in the action that we get to see the results and know, you know, I feel like I’m directionally off a little bit here. So based on what I’m experiencing, what would I change about this? But if you liberate and we know the trap we can get in of trying to perfect the activity, I would just say we’re very directionally, we’ve had three conversations that have kind of all circled the same issue. I would say what would be your commitment to do? And let’s do that for a committed amount of time. You know, for us, we usually say like, it’s 10 weeks, that’s a long time to build a habit. But you give yourself the ability each week to ask, how’s that doing? Is that the right thing? Or on this journey did I see something just off the path that feels much better and I think that’s it.

Greg McKeown     

Okay, the thing that is most concrete when you come back to what can you do, suddenly, I mean, all the talk about the mantra and so on. Those are all interesting explorations. But when you say that question, I come back to the more concrete idea of exploring, having a whole day on strategy with Anna each week, and so coach me through what do I do next? 

Jay Papasan     

I would say, I know that when Gary and I write together, we often write separately, when we write together, the minimum allotted time is often four hours. And do we always take full advantage of the four hours? No, but is a big block of time, like literally half a day, we try to put it as early as possible, because if we’re in a groove, we’re gonna keep going. Right? We’re not, we’re gonna let it extend well beyond that, I also find that if we’re in a groove, we often are exhausted after four hours. So that became the half day become became our minimum standard.  I would just say, why don’t you challenge yourself to kicking off each week with a half day of strategy, being disciplined about what happened in the afternoon, so you had the flexibility to keep going. But like, I do, like the tiny habits’ philosophy, where you get to build momentum by building on success.

And if you really feel like you can commit to an eight-hour day, every week, awesome, go for it. But I would rather you experience success. And let those dominoes get bigger over time without jumping ahead too far. You need a minimum amount of time to actually get into that creative framework and identify the problems that you can then solve. We call it time blocking; you now know what you’re committing to do. You go to your calendar, and you block it off. And so you have literally a four hour block that repeats on Mondays. And you can look at your calendar many weeks out and see, oh, I’m speaking that day. Well, our mantra is, if you erase you must replace. So do you want to take a half day on the Friday before or on Tuesday. But if that becomes the thing, you’re making a stand around, you’re gonna do it. Obviously, if your kids are sick, that’s a higher priority. But if you erase you must replace. So you’re just going to make a stand around getting that block of time, every week. And then you’ll see what happens with that time you’ll evolve it. 

My wife and I do an annual retreat. We do have a weekly check in it doesn’t take us four hours. We’re not doing what you’re doing. But we’ve found that rhythm where we help solve each other’s problems and it is maybe it feels more formal in retrospect and it ever showed up in our lives. It just happened that way.

Greg McKeown   

What do you do when you’re on the retreat? What’s the framework?

Jay Papasan     

It’s from the one thing we get in touch with our values. What is our core values?

Greg McKeown     

How do you do that?

Jay Papasan

It is a love child of the 90% rule, which is in your book, right? Where if a candidate didn’t hit 90%, nine out of 10 on three criteria, they didn’t move forward. And our idea of purpose, and an exercise that Brene Brown does, where I have three words, and this is what I kind of evolved from a conversation with an entrepreneur, he sold his business. Mine are family impact and abundance, and Wendy has hers. And but we both share impact. That is the one that we both share. But for me, families first, I can’t make a big choice that pulls me away from my family and not regret it.

Greg McKeown  

Okay, so I get the idea of the three words. Somebody listening to this they go off and what exactly do they do to reconnect with their values?

Jay Papasan   

If you don’t know, kind of your core values, the things that you should always say yes to, and if it violates them always say no to, that’s just a job you can do. That is its own exercise. We have a we have a form a process that we work people through for that. And it’s not overly complicated. You could just think, like if I had to have something that met my three core criteria. Journal for a while, figure that out, but that’s the foundation, then we set five-year goals, based on our five-year goals, what will we do next year, right? And we get very specific around those. And then we have like it’s evolved, right? We ask, what are we going to do for our charity? What are going to do for our kids, we go through our relationships. It’s about a three-page document. We have it on our website, it’s a free download called the kick ass guide to a couple’s goal setting retreat. It’s not overly complicated. You’re creating space to get in alignment around the things that truly matter. And I found when we know where we’re going together, we have the ability to negotiate for what each person needs, so that we can stay in touch with each other on the journey.

Greg McKeown     

Do you always do the exercise or is it really if I was actually there watching I’d say well, they’re just really, they’re going out to eat. They’re spending time together. They’re reconnecting. You know, it’s more informal?

Jay Papasan     

So the first night, we go to dinner, and we kind of get on the same page. So that is the fun, right? We got to have some fun, or it doesn’t feel like a retreat, it just feels like work. Right? So we get a nice dinner. And we just asked like, what are the big things that we need to cover? I can tell you having done this for many years, a lot of us we’ve come to the table having done some of that work. But if you’re a first timer, you can just talk like, we’ve got this document, where do we need to spend the most time tomorrow. This helps you kind of realize, I know what the big rocks are for my family, for my health. Now I can say yes to things with some confidence that I’m not going to mess up this other stuff. I know if I do a few of these habits, and I can maintain them consciously, my life is happier and better.  

Greg McKeown     

Yeah, and you’re not saying that you are now delivering 100% on every habit and every goal. But what you have that you wouldn’t have is, is a clearer yes to keep coming back, so instead of simply living your life as a function of the inbox, and, and the inputs that come and the reactive needs and the and the shiny new objects that come along. Instead of those things totally dominating, there’s always something to come back to. 

Jay Papasan     

Yes, a compass of sorts right, hopefully guided by values. But you have this compass about where we’ve said and agreed we’re going. What is it we want in the future? Can we talk about that together so that if it shows up, we understand that this is something that we’ve done It’s not a flight of fancy. 

Greg McKeown     

it prepared your minds and hearts to be able to take action that otherwise you wouldn’t have been able to take.

Jay Papasan  

Right? I’m sure you prepared your wife for, if I’m launching a new book next year, that’s going to have certain requirements on your time. But because you talked about it in advance, and I’m making an assumption that you didn’t drop this on her last week, right? That she kind of knows to expect that you might be doing a few more keynotes than you normally do. And you might be doing more interviews than you normally do in order to support that new project. But if we plan together, the person whose to me my most valuable partner in life, if we’re on this roller coaster together, we both have our eyes open, we know the curves that are coming. Right, and we get to enjoy it a little bit, even when it’s scary, because we both know what’s coming. If we had our blindfold on, which is how a lot of us treat our partners, we just, we don’t really let them in on where we want to go completely, and why they can kind of get rag dolled through the years if we’re not careful, especially with entrepreneurs.

Greg McKeown  

Yes, wise words in thoroughly enjoyable conversation. Let me let me let me ask you one final question. And that is what matters most to you, and why?

Jay Papasan 

The values that I carry with me that are at the top of every goal sheet are family, impact, and abundance. I really want my life to matter, I want it first and foremost, to make a difference for the people I love the most. I hope that my number one job as husband is fulfilled, and my number close second job as dad is fulfilled. And then I want to have an impact and create abundance in the world. Like I use that as something to measure what I should say yes to. And all others should be no’s, don’t have a perfect track record, I sometimes make mistakes. But that clarity has helped me make a lot of good decisions and avoid a lot of regrets.

Greg McKeown  

So if you had to summarize the one thing, amongst those three things, it would be family, because that’s the first of the three, yes?

Jay Papasan  

It is the first, it is the one that I should if I’m living my best version of my life, as I understand it today, it’s the one that I really should refuse to violate.

Greg McKeown     

There’s a saying that I’ve thought of often in my life, that basically says, no success will compensate for failure in the home.

Jay Papasan   

Hmm. Well, I that resonates with me.

Greg McKeown     

And that’s what I hear in you when you say that. Give us the final word.

Jay Papasan     

Whether you know it or not, there are people who look up to you. Hopefully, some people in your family that are taking cues from us and so much that multi-generational programming can be positive or negative is impacted just in how we role model the behaviors right there in our home. And we can make a really impactful this difference right there. And everything else can follow that I would just again, I always come back to think big, start small, have a huge vision for your life, and then dive into it. So just why don’t you practice tomorrow to whoever’s listening, being an awesome spouse, and an awesome parent tomorrow. And then the next day, you can try to do it again.

Greg McKeown     

Jay Papasan, it’s been a pleasure to have you. 

Jay Papasan     

Thank you, Greg.  


Greg McKeown

Credits:

  • Hosted by Greg McKeown
  • Produced by Greg McKeown Team
  • Executive Produced by Greg McKeown