SPEAKERS

Greg McKeown, Emily Stewart

Transcript

Emily Stewart 

I’m sorry to be so incredibly late. I’ve just been a few things. It’s just it’s just been one of those evenings and then it took me ages to figure it all out. But anyway, I got there in the end, but I’m so sorry that it’s so late.

Greg McKeown 

No, it’s late for you. It’s, it’s early for me. And I remember talking with Thomas Friedman, who writes for the New York Times. And he told me that whenever people are late for him, he always begins by saying thank you for being late. Because it’s the only time in his day that he gets to pause and think.

Emily Stewart 

Right, yeah, true.

Greg McKeown 

Reflect. So, you might have, you might have done me a favor. So, Emily, tell me about you.

Emily Stewart 

Right. Well, currently what I’m doing is desperately trying to get my computer plugged in so it doesn’t, it doesn’t run out of batteries. You’re alright if I do this in here?

Greg McKeown 

Yes

Emily Stewart

Thank you. I am living in Bristol, in the UK and with my husband, who’s just here, finishing off tidying up, and my daughter who’s 12. And I’m a district nurse. So I do home visits with people who are mostly elderly, and do whatever health things they need. And so I work part time doing that three days a week, back in work tomorrow after a few days off. And yeah, that’s a kind of brief synopsis. And I also run a business that doesn’t have much to do with nursing. So education for girls about periods and parents on supporting girls through periods. So that’s separate to the nursing, but I haven’t had really any time to do that over the last since March. Been doing much of that.

Greg McKeown 

And, of course, since March is birth of COVID. So tell me how your life is different before and after.

Emily Stewart 

Well, it’s different in good ways. And in more challenging ways. My job, my nursing job has taken over my life a little more, in that it’s taken a lot of energy and brainpower and I think energy mostly. And so where in the past, I managed to run my other business alongside it. And it was hard, but was working really, really hard. I just as soon as this happened, I just had to drop everything else, and focus on having the energy I needed to get through my nursing work, because it was so uncertain in the beginning, and there was so much fear around and so many worries about what it would be like for us and our patients. And a lot of that hasn’t come to pass where I particularly work at the moment yet, but we’re, we’re always on tenterhooks wondering if it’s gonna

hit any point. So, I guess that has been the major changes that my work problem with our work processes change. Usually our way of working in a team has been really affected. So that’s been really hard.

Greg McKeown 

What were you worried about having happen?

Emily Stewart 

We were told to expect to have large numbers of people discharged from home to die at home of covert, which was projected to be a very unpleasant experience. So, we were being prepared. Well, not really prepared. We were just told this is what you’ll be doing, you’ll be going out and giving these injections and you’ll be back to back. And, yeah, the picture that that was painted to us, with the expectations of there being a great need was really frightening at the time, because we do a lot of palliative care and my job, we do a lot of caring for the dying, but we don’t do it back to back all day. And the, you know, concerns around our personal protection and the PPE were being we were being given we were being told it was sufficient, but actually, I don’t think anyone really believed that it was but you know, the message from on high was always “Yes, this is absolutely fine. This is all you need.” But when I was thinking if “I’m in that house of somebody who’s coughing and dying of COVID I don’t feel like I’ll be protected in that what you’ve given me” But then that hasn’t come to pass. So there’s there was a lot of fear, and a lot of uncertainty and a lot of an all our usual team support structures fell apart because we couldn’t gather together as a team anymore. And so yeah, it was it was really challenging. In the beginning things have kind of leveled out. But still, we can’t meet as a team. So still the team morale is suffering from it.

Greg McKeown 

Whenever there is change, there is fear.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, exactly.

Greg McKeown

But in this case, there was so much change, so much expected change, so much uncertainty about what it would be like, how sudden that change would be, that the level of fear was off the charts.

Emily Stewart 

It really was, yeah, and just in our particular situation in this particular town. We also went through a company, not takeover, but we changed companies there. Well, right in the middle of it. So, we went from one company to another on the first of April. And so, there was massive disruption caused through that in the middle of it all. So, it was sort of doubly challenging at that time.

Greg McKeown 

Because you’ve already got the normal kinds of change that could happen inside of an organization, that alone creates this type of fear. Not sure how this is going to affect me.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, Absolutely.

Greg McKeown

You’re going to be hijacked by that. But then all the time, there is this ever-present fear of COVID.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, and lots of members of staff who either were very vulnerable themselves or who were shielding people at home who are very, very vulnerable. And of course, our entire caseload is very vulnerable people as well. So, and thinking about our own families and what we’re bringing onto them and the process we have to go through in terms of preparing ourselves to get into work and then cleansing everything off when we get back from work. Yes, it’s been a huge change. And I mean, I’m hugely grateful that I’m not in ICU, you know, actually doing that work, which seems incredibly hard. But at the same time, it’s also highlighted a lot of the work that we do, which is similar to that just looking after people dying. It’s a privilege and an honor, but it’s also really hard. It’s emotionally hard.

Greg McKeown 

Well, the word you’ve used in a variety of settings just there is vulnerable.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, yeah.

Greg McKeown 

Vulnerable for people that you’re coming home to? What’s the risk to them?

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

Vulnerable because even in a normal day’s work, when you’re dealing with end of life care that’s already vulnerable for the people you’re serving for you to have the compassion and the presence to be able to do that well. Plus, just the vulnerability of the team when everybody’s raw.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, very much so.

Greg McKeown 

Let me ask you this, given the environment that you’ve been in, what is something that is essential to you that you’re under-investing in. First thought?

Emily Stewart 

My family.

Greg McKeown 

Tell me more.

Emily Stewart 

I feel like I would like to have more energy for them. And my energy levels have been really low throughout this period. I have prioritized some of the things I do for myself, mostly being outside. I’ve had to prioritize going outside as often as I can in the week.

Greg McKeown 

As a coping mechanism.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, absolutely. As a way of getting through it. So, I have an allotment place here to grow vegetables and I’ve been spending time there. So, I’ve been doing that for myself, which has been great. But in terms of the feeling like I could be really fully present and spend time with my daughter and have the energy to, you know, have fun and things like that that was easier in the earlier days because we were kind of all in crisis mode. And so, we were kind of thrown together. And that was it, we were kind of going out on walks together and things like that, which felt really good. But, as this has gone on over time, sort of that grinding feeling of it. I’ve got this sense of feeling a bit ground down by it. And it feels essential to me that I have the energy for the people closest to me that I love. And that has felt the hardest. I mean, lots of other things as well. But then also this period of time has forced me to just push all that to the side. So that’s why I asked that question in the first place of like, how do I decide what’s essential when this is going on? Because at the time, I was thinking, I should still be doing this, this, this and this and this, but I’ve had to let so much of it go.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, and you’re describing an interesting two-phase part of this COVID experience, which I think a lot of people can relate to. When it first arrived. There was a bit like maybe the blitzing of London where people are down in the underground together. We weren’t alive for that, of course, but one could imagine how harrowing that experience is. But nevertheless, you’re there. You’re grateful that you’re safe. You’re having an experience, together with other people. You know, you are wanting to get through this in a unified way. So, there’s something of the desperation of it something of the unit if it. That at least you’re having a common experience, not just with everybody around you, but with your daughter, with your husband, you’re going “we are in this.” That’s phase one. It’s challenging for its own set of reasons. But phase two doesn’t have the same level of adrenaline.

Emily Stewart

No

Greg McKeown

But now you’re trying to deal with it at a time when you are a bit depleted probably, physically and emotionally and so on. Does that sound right?

Emily Stewart

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Greg McKeown

And what you want is what? What would success look like? If you know, I don’t mean what’s perfect in this area you just identified, but what would you need to be doing that you would say, “look, I feel good about it. It’s not perfect, but I feel good. I’m not under investing anymore.”

Emily Stewart 

I think it’s almost more about a feeling before that at all. A feeling around it, which would be that the time I was spending with my family felt like time I really wanted to be there. I wanted to be doing that and it didn’t feel like it was a strain. If you know I mean, I’m very good at making myself do things even when I’m tired or, you know, very good at pushing myself to do the things I feel are important. But I think what good would look or feel like would be feeling like I had that to give you know that I love this phrase giving from your saucer, not your cup. I the feeling of having love to give from my saucer and it not being sort of used up at work or used up in the all of that side of things. And then I mean, I do spend lots of time with my family and do that. But that’s interesting, because when you ask that question, I wouldn’t necessarily have thought that that would have come out my mouth. But yeah, and I think it’s about the feeling behind it isn’t that I can spend time with them. But the feeling of spending time with them because they’re really wanting that feeling really good. And I feel like I’ve got it to give. That’s the feeling I would want.

Greg McKeown 

But there it is. Yes, you’re saying I think that you’re spending the time that you want. It’s not that you would necessarily increase the minutes and hours, but it’s that when you’re with them, you’re fully present.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

And that you have the energy to show up to them as a full person.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Greg McKeown 

Instead of when the moment comes to give the love from the saucer to use that phrase, you go, Oh, it’s empty. I’m here. You’re here. But I’m empty now.

Emily Stewart

Yeah

Greg McKeown

I don’t have what I wish I had to give you. Is the emptiness a result of just being worn down over time? You know, that drip by drip you have less and less left at the end of the day? Is that the experience that you’re having?

Emily Stewart 

I think so. I’ve never been that great with my time boundary keeping with my work. It tends to spill over into my home life because I think it’s tricky working part time when I’m, no I’m not going to be there for a few days. I know I have to tie up loose ends. I was out of nursing for many years. I just came back into it two years ago, I’m having to learn a new way of being in this job, which is much more looking at what I can do and delaying what I can’t do that doesn’t have to be on that day. So, in terms of prioritizing my daily work life, that’s a new skill. I’m about to have to start learning because I’ve struggled because I end up staying late. So, this week in particular is challenging because on Monday, I broke my golden rule, didn’t take a lunch break, worked all the way through and then had to work. A good hour and a half after work finished. I came away at the end of day thinking I haven’t been outside haven’t had a lunch break. The only way I could get everything that was on my plate gun was by like obliterating everything else. Of course, by the end of the day, I was just miserable. I was exhausted. And I’m still you know, three days later, just picking myself backup from that. Giving too much when I’m there and not actually probably not looking at what is essential in the day, actually, in my nursing job is probably what would be really useful.

Greg McKeown 

You said something interesting to me. You said, when I’m ever come back this time, I am having to learn a new skill. Why do you need to learn at this time versus before?

Emily Stewart

The NHS is a different organization to what it was nearly 15 years ago. It’s, um, there are many nursing vacancies now. And the caseload of patients I’m looking after now is just wildly different to what it used to be. We do a lot more for people at home, like a world away from what we used to do 15 years ago. And the job used to be a lot slower. And the skill mix was very different. And it was you had the time and the space, even on busy times to look very holistically at a patient, which is why we go into nursing in the first place. You could do the job you went into the job to do you know to look at the patient as a whole person and look at how you can help them thrive in their own home. Whereas just down to logistics of staffing levels and need and capacity, it’s very hard to do that, now. I think you can do it. But you have to do it in a different way. You can’t just go in and say, right, okay, what do I need to do today? I’m going to do all of this, you have to go in and go, right, what’s essential today? What can I delay until next time I’m in? And then what can I pass on and delegate? It’s just a much more management looking at things, I guess, just a skill I didn’t have to use in the past.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, what you’re saying is that you could achieve your intent for looking after a whole person, a whole patient, simply by being there, there was enough buffer built into the day, there was enough time to be able to do that work in a humane way. But now, if you just turn up and hope to meet those needs in that holistic, caring, compassionate way, there isn’t sufficient time to do it, so you have got to become more selective in order to still achieve the same intent.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

So another thing you said that I thought was interesting was this idea of the super day.

Emily Stewart

Yes

Greg McKeown

I’m using my own words for it. But where that first day, you have so much on the plate, you’re just trying to get through so much. And you know, you can because you have some time and you have energy and you can make it happen, but somehow forcing that and pushing that through, takes up more out of you maybe then was even obvious because you say three days later, I’m just recovering now, from that one day, super push.

Emily Stewart

Yeah

Greg McKeown

So it’s a helpful thing to explore maybe what the full cost is of a force day.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, that’s very true. Yeah, cause I don’t factor that into that. I just think I got to get this done. I’ll be fine. I’ll get through it. But you’re right, and not thinking about what the cost is, and how that cost is exponentially increasing, the more I push.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, I think so. Because what it sounds like, is that past a certain point, let’s call it like the sustainable point.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah.

Greg McKeown 

Maybe it’s like nine to five or something, you know that there is something to that approximate, you know, number of hours of work, that you say, Well, if I end here at five, I’m going to be okay. To go home still have energy. I’m going to be able to cope with tomorrow, and so on. It’s a sustainable path. But for every hour past that sustainable point, you’re using up energy from deep reserves.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah.

Greg McKeown 

From a cup, you know, from the saucer that has taken some time to build up. And So yes, it can be done. I mean, if the only question is, “Can it physically be done, even can emotionally be done?” The answer’s yes. If you look at it just within, you know, with blinders on, as if today exists and nothing else exists.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

But once you start to go past the sustainable point, you’re really using up reserves that took a long time to develop.

Emily Stewart 

Yes, yes.

Greg McKeown 

It reminds me somehow of mining out oil resources or coal resources. They took a long time to build, but they can be burned really quickly.

Emily Stewart 

Yes, yeah. It’s a very, very good and close analogy. And to greater extent is what the NHS runs on that goodwill and willingness by thousands of people to burn their coal. So, I know I’m not alone.

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, that’s interesting what you’re describing because what I think you’re alluding too is the idea that a whole system a whole, you know, the National Health System, or a whole organization of any kind, or even writ large a whole society could be living beyond its emotional means.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

So, it’s surviving, but it’s only surviving because people keep on digging deeper into reserves that really they ought to have or it would be useful to have, for whatever the next challenge or crisis that will inevitably come.

Emily Stewart 

Yes, there’s an uneasiness I’ve experienced it in my team. I haven’t really heard anyone talk about it directly, but I think it’s there. And I would imagine it’s probably the same in nurses across the whole world at the moment. And I’m sure doctors as well as this feeling of, Okay, so that was the first wave. We’ve got winter coming in this hemisphere of the world. What’s next, you know, how can we resource ourselves to get ready for that? Because winter is always really tough, really tough. Those people go off sick. You know, we’ve got loads of extra caseloads, lots of people needing a lot of care. The hospitals are the same. How do we resource ourselves after a year that’s already been really hard? So, I think that’s, again, another anxiety on top.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, because under normal circumstances in the healthcare system, the winter is tougher on your oldest people, that toughest on the whole population, you can still have crisis points the you can expect that peak period, but now, there’s the additional burden that COVID is almost certainly going to produce. So, there’s, there’s that anxiety but the thing that I felt like you were really saying was how do you How do you prepare for that? Not just with, you know, with number of hours or number of people and numbers of nurses. That’s clearly one factor. But also, this question of what how can you, How could you possibly build reserves, emotional reserves in order to be able to, to call upon them when that spike inevitably comes? It’s a question you don’t have the answer, but this is a question that’s coming out of this conversation.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, I think so. Yeah. And I know I won’t be alone in that in my line of work and lots of other lines of work similarly.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, because it’s the opposite of the super day. You know, this the Super Force day where you that’s a spike that takes up all the resources but how do you supercharge. right Tesla has the super charging stations. How is there a Is there a super charging solution here that would allow people to quickly get their resources back to feel renewed again.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, that’s like the holy grail, isn’t it? Yeah. And how to do that when you’re depleted and stressed, because then you get your time off, and you just feel jangly and like, oh, it’s almost easier being back at work. This is a horrible spiral that you can go into with that.

Greg McKeown 

That’s a really interesting point. I think lots of people have experienced that in life that for all the complaining about work and the number of hours of work, actually, it’s easier than what’s waiting for them at home. Because the relationships at home are the ones that are even more depleted.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

And so as that relationship becomes a bit more bit more strained, everything becomes harder there.

Emily Stewart 

Yes, yes. And at least at home, you know, your role, you know, you’re making a difference, especially in a job like mine, you know, you know, you go into someone’s house and they’re in a mess and you leave and they’re feeling better and saying thank you so much nurse and you’re like, yes, I did something good. But you come home and as you just described, if that’s all going on, and then you’ve got all of this exhaustion and you’re needing to be something for everybody, and you just need to rest, but you can’t because you need to be something for the people around and it’s just when I don’t feel like that all the time. But I do have times that feel like yeah, it’s really, it’s really hard.

Greg McKeown   

Anna and I, my wife and I, met with one of our heroes when we were very first married. He had a he still has this idyllic marriage really appears to just have figured this out. And it seems like so many people, could be good at lots of things, but don’t figure this out. And so we met with him just to say, Well, how what did you do and one of the things he said that has always stayed with us is he said marriage is easy if you work hard at it and hard if you work easy at it. So, it’s a good barometer. Because as soon as it starts to feel hard, we say, oh well, we know why. Because we aren’t investing in it. We’re not working at it. And then of course, the funny thing with the cycle is then when it starts to feel easy, it’s easy to then not continue to invest in it. Because it’s working.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, to go, Oh, it’s fine. We’re in a, we’re in a good space. Yeah, yeah.

Greg McKeown 

Anna and I think of it like emotional engine oil.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

Where, you know, in the car, you it’s all everything’s going well, you think I don’t need to go. I don’t need to check the oil or take it in or top it up. Everything’s fine. But as soon as that oil becomes depleted, or even if of course, it just gets a bit dirty, the water, the oil. Yeah, everything in the engine starts to have greater friction. In fact, the whole thing can stop working quite suddenly. All for one is oil. And so I mean, I think that what you’re describing really, I think you’re saying that the pattern of my life right now, and you don’t mean, for the last even for the last year or six months, it might even be just recently. But the pattern currently is so much as being taken out of me out there, that there’s less of me to go around when I get with my most important relationships, my family relationships. And so that means I’m even more exhausted by the time I’m going to sleep because it wasn’t satisfying, and it was more strained. And so, then the pattern then continues the next day. That’s what it sounds like you’re describing.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, to a greater or lesser extent. Yes, depending on the day.

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, exactly. You’re saying it isn’t always like this. But you can see that pattern sometimes.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, and it’s definitely getting more so as our case load builds back up again. And as things get more busy, so yes, I’m nervous about how the trajectory is looking, it’s not looking great.

Greg McKeown 

It’s more like looking forward concern than it is right now. If it was just if this moment was a blip, okay, it’s fine. But if it continued, then then you really would be even more concerned.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah. And the likelihood of it continuing is higher than it not.

Greg McKeown 

Right. The forces that are making this moment happen, are still going to be in place tomorrow or next week. In fact, they’re likely to increase over time.

Emily Stewart 

Yes.

Greg McKeown 

Now I have a thought for you, which is, I spent two weeks one time I’d been invited to go to a program at Harvard Kennedy School. And 50 people had been invited from all different industries, social entrepreneurs, you have really a fascinating, eclectic group of leaders really, and that was the subject matter for the two weeks was, you know, what are the big intractable problems of our time? And what could we do about them? And as I listened over the next almost two weeks and participated in the discussions and so on, the simplest idea started to dawn on me. And it was so simple, in fact that I thought if I say this, then I think people might think I’m really naive. And I don’t know, I was hesitant. And finally, towards the end of the two weeks, I put my hand up and I said, what had been coming to me, I said, I wonder when we’ve got a prioritization error going on, like a simple prioritization error. I wonder if we put more of our energy and resources into helping individuals and families be happy and healthy at home? We wouldn’t solve many of the problems out there that we’ve just spent the last two weeks talking about. And the group to my surprise, gave an enthusiastic applause. And I was surprised both in that moment, and then afterwards to find that I wasn’t the only person in the room who thought this. In fact, everybody thought it, just no one had said it. And out of that came, what I now think of is the simplest idea in the world. And it’s three concentric circles. On the outside the outside circle is just everything out there. All the problems out there, all of the challenges out there, and what non-essentialists seem to do is they start there. And so, they’re trying to solve all those problems, and it’s well intended is that there’s not a motivational problem. But the problem is you can’t ever, you can’t ever drain the ocean. You know, you can’t ever solve all those problems.

Emily Stewart 

Just, I just remember the moment when I was about 15, I thinking, I didn’t have the thought in my head. I’m going to solve all those problems, but it was when I was like, that’s my path in life. I remember someone mocking me a little bit later, Oh, you want to save the world. I was like, No, I just want to do this and that I just I yeah, I just remember the point as a teenager taking that on.

Greg McKeown

Yes, it’s equal parts. It’s equal parts optimism, but also no sense of just how big it all is out there. The second circle in these three concentric circles is relationships, our most important relationships, its family is other key relationships in our life, and that’s number two. And so the non-essentialist well intended has so many little left of themselves by the time they make it home, by the time they make it to those relationships that there’s not much left of them, that they can be there physically, but emotionally just as we’ve talked about, there’s not much emotion left, it’s been used up out there. And then the third circle, the inner circle is to protect the asset and protect the asset. I mean, that’s you, right? You’re the asset. You’re the only person who can make any, any other contribution in your life, the only person who can help any of the other people that you care about helping so you’re the asset. So here’s the simplest idea is just that non-essentialists go from the outside in and essentialists go from the inside out. That’s it. That’s the shift. So, start with protecting the asset and making sure. I mean, as you already alluded to, that you’re at the allotment, you’re taking some time you’re getting outside, you know, you are doing certain things to maintain sanity. But beyond that, it’s then creating enough buffer and boundaries, to be able to invest in your family while you still have, you know, some of that good, strong emotional resource that is you so that they’re not the last thing in a day. And then because you’ve protected the asset internally, because you’ve invested in the most important relationships, you actually go into your work out there with a better, sharper, different, discerning mindset.

Emily Stewart 

That makes sense.

Greg McKeown 

So that you end up actually contributing in a higher way that’s sort of the paradox of getting the order right is that your actual overall impact out there is greater because you go into it, your asset is protected, your relationships are intact, they’re supportive of your next actions. They may even have helped you to discern and prioritize. So, the order seems to matter.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

I know, we’re still talking conceptually. But just your reactions to this.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah. I love how you know, in life, sometimes you have to hear the same thing many times before it sort of starts to sink in. And although I haven’t heard this concept described in the way you’ve just described it, I’m really aware of that, you know, you have to, you know, put your own oxygen mask on before your child’s and all the rest. I’ve been aware of that conceptually for years, as I’ve never actually got beyond my brain and into the rest of me, you know, and it feels so important. I think it’s that thing about protecting assets such a powerful statement. It just suddenly wakes you up and goes, “hang on a minute. yes, what am I doing.” It’s almost like I’ve been in a dream all this time it’s starting to filter into my thoughts like that actually there’s ways I could do that because my immediate my practical heads going well yeah, that’s all very well but also I’ve got to work three days a week and when I’m there is all this stuff. But then actually, there’s this part of me that’s going well, but I don’t have to give full cream full fat to that. If I’m protecting the asset then actually, I have to figure out what this asset is actually able to do in that day. And do that and not then not more than that. Like there’s ways I can adapt the way I work. It is a big shift.

Greg McKeown 

But yeah, that’s really powerful. What you just said, living a dream. And I think that the dream you’re describing is one, when you hear an idea, once or twice or even 10 times. Each time you hear it, I think it goes a little deeper. So, when people say, Oh, that’s a good reminder, they think they’re just remembering what they knew before. But what I think is happening is it goes deeper. And so, it gets closer to their heart because it’s the journey not from your intellectual understanding which we get the first time, but all the way to the feeling of it where it becomes a part of you.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah.

Greg McKeown 

So that seems to be the first micro shift. But the second is there’s quite a difference between the put your oxygen mask on first and then your child which is totally valid. And I love that metaphor. But there is a difference between that, and you are an asset that must be protected. One is like, well, what’s the least you need to do to survive? And the other is, you matter. Yeah, you are precious. You are a value. You deserve not from some crazy sense of selfishness has got nothing whatsoever to do with that its actual value.

Emily Stewart 

Yes, you’re right. Yes.

Greg McKeown 

So, for all the reasons that you want to be a nurse in the first place to care for somebody why do you care? Because you see their worth, because you believe that they matter the whole person you said a whole person and what I think protect the asset is in this moment is you, Emily are a whole person.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, yeah.

Greg McKeown

You need to be invested in protected you know, this, this idea and I mean, I believe it’s literally true, right? Like what? infinitely valuable, infinite worth. Now, I don’t mean to muddle it by saying this, but just, I mean look at the world’s righteous indignation. What’s happened, what happened to George Floyd. The whole world saw this. Yeah, this terrible injustice this.

Emily Stewart

Yeah

Greg McKeown

What’s violated there with of course, but we’re all violated because we know his worth as a human. And that’s what must be restored and that’s what people are trying to restore into the world. And so, just taking that general lesson and applying it now to you.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, absolutely.

Greg McKeown

It’s the re-enthroning, the reawakening of you know, you matter. You are an asset and organizing life, your life with that truth in place unviolated.

Emily Stewart 

Unviolate is a very strong and powerful word is. It’s good for me to hear.

Greg McKeown 

What’s going on in you as you hear this is it? Yeah, I got I got it move on, or is there something more substantial going on inside of you?

Emily Stewart 

I mean, you know, I’m, I’m a believer in these. Well, my experience over the last few months has been that this whole COVID-19 situation has brought about an opportunity for me to change the way I live my life, which has been an immense gift. I’ve been so grateful for this time. And I’m incredibly lucky to have a job and a home and not be in a lot of the hardships that so many people are through it. So I’m hugely aware of my privilege in that but it has brought me to a place where I can have this conversation with you today and hear you say that and really feel at landing me and like it see a change in that, like, my I feel like there’s a fertile soil in my body for that to land that there hasn’t been before, to the point where I think that’s why that word unviolated feels really important because I know speaking for myself, and I’m sure I won’t be alone. And when you look at the way, you know, we’re treating the world and we look at the way so many people are so exhausted. I’ve often felt like I’ve sort of, like, I’ve treated myself like I was bonded somehow, you know, like I had, so whipping myself to keep on going all the time. And there’s all sorts of there’ll be all sorts of reasons, self-belief around that, but this idea of viewing myself as an asset that needs to be cherished and cared for is one that I’ve just not really have occurred to me before. Which is crazy considering my work because like you said, I’ve never, I’ve never made that parallel. I think it’s you making that parallel between me seeing my patients is in a holistic way of thinking, how can I meet this person’s needs as much as I can? And then looking, you know, not not not doing the same for myself. I mean, actually, when you look at it, that’s completely insane. But it’s what we do.

Greg McKeown 

You’re open to it in a different way.

Emily Stewart 

I don’t know how it’s gonna happen yet, or what it’s gonna look like.

Greg McKeown 

I, I remember, there was a YouGov poll, right when all of this started. That said, the only 9% of the population in the UK wanted to go back to how things were before because they’ve experienced something else. So even at the same time, as they’re saying, well, I don’t want this to go on forever. They’re saying but what I’ve just come from, isn’t something I’m trying to rush back to.

Emily Stewart 

No, the thought is abhorrent.

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, that’s quite a strong word, isn’t it, abhorrent?

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, it really is. Honestly, the thought of going back to how it was over the winter I just can’t bear the thought of it. I remember the first time I saw I had the headlines in newspapers a few weeks back talking about oh, this is going to be opening again that’s going to be opening.  I actually cried in the supermarket, just like a car bear can’t, can’t go back to that. And feeling just last couple of weeks, so many people I’ve spoken to have been feeling this increase in pressure and increase in stressors. So, like, the world is speeding up around us. I feel it in my body, the sense of like, more stressed and feeling more rushed and bit more urgency coming back and thinking but nothing’s changed in my life, but from my job, maybe slightly more busy than it was but nothing in my life has changed. It must be just the feeling of everybody around us. Picking back up speed again. It was horrible, horrible.

Greg McKeown 

That’s an interesting idea that that other people’s behavior affects and changes the culture. So, the emotional air we’re breathing changes. Even if our actual concrete behavior or life circumstance hasn’t changed, we can sense it. We can feel it.

Emily Stewart 

I think so. I think so. It’s been my experience. And I think I might have thought I was just making up had I not spoken to lots of people who are thinking were saying, just in the last two weeks, so many people have said, kind of feeling really stressed, don’t feel stressed for ages, but I’m starting to feel really anxious and hurried and in a way that they hadn’t for many, many weeks.

Greg McKeown 

I’ve spent the last several years since writing essentialism, working with people organizations all over the world. Provide counterprogramming while the world is creating a culture of the undisciplined pursuit of more, or everyone’s busy, not necessarily productive, everyone’s feeling stretched to, you know, to the limit, sometimes just beyond it personally, professionally at home at work day is constantly hijacked by other people’s agenda by what’s going on. Like, that’s non-essentialism. And suddenly, literally, almost, actually, overnight. The whole world was asked, you know, well, not unkindly, you know, go to your room here. Have a good think about that and come out when you’re ready. And I found just, I was just observing something almost unimaginable. Whichever one was, but I was seeing it from a particular point of view, but the whole world involuntarily were essentialists now.

Emily Stewart

Yeah

Greg McKeown

You must pause, you must think. You might not want to, you’re going to, you’re going to go outside and take a walk, because while you’re going to there’s only so many options, and that’s one of them. The the the advantage of constraint was something that we experienced.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was quite incredible.

Greg McKeown

So, we’ve had this experience. Of course, the question for all of us is, what will we do with the fertile ground that you’re describing? We’re open. Now. What, what? We want to do it differently. Let’s do it differently this time.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

But we’re not yet sure quite what that means. Most people I think listening to this would say, I don’t have the words yet,  I don’t have the system. I just want a little more of the upside of what we’ve just gone through. And not just to go forward in a in a manic, frenetic frantic way. So, I have another question for you, which is, why does making a change matter so much to you?

Emily Stewart 

Making a change myself?

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, I mean, you’ve said that you don’t know quite how to make it happen. And in a moment, I want to go to that. But just before I do, I want you to try and put into words, why it matters, to figure this out to get the order right to protect the asset, so that you can be there for these most important relationships with you know, emotional presence and, and love and compassion for them. And then be able to, like why does it all matter so much to figure this out?

Emily Stewart 

Well, the first answer that comes to my mind is quite a fear-based answer. But I found myself in hospital a few years ago with a really horrendous middle ear infection. And when I was laying there in the hospital bed, I remember saying to myself, I have to change or come back, I’ll find myself back in something much worse. And I kind of changed but then ended up going back exactly to the same old patterns, different job different, you know, choices, but the same way of being and so that’s always there in the back of my mind. And also because I guess I’m getting older, you know, I’m not getting any younger,  my child’s not getting younger, she will be here very much longer, you know, obviously she will be but like, she’s, she’s not gonna be here for another 20 years, you know, she’s heading towards her teen years. I can see those years you know, passing very fast. Want to make the most of them.

Greg McKeown

Yes.

Emily Stewart

And I think I’m just, I just had enough of that way of being I’ve just had enough of it. This COVID-19 time has shown me that it’s possible not to be like that. It’s offered me this gift on a plate to say, look, here’s where you just let everything that’s not essential go to the wayside and just focus on what’s important. This is what life can be like. This is you know, getting up making time going to the allotment to spend time an hour on the land in the morning. I can do that. I never thought that was possible in the past. A, I can’t bear to go back to how it was. B, I’m scared of what will happen if I do. And C, I’ve just had, I’ve had enough of it.

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, it’s as I hear those things come together. I just hear someone saying I’m ready. Over ready to find a different path. I’ve got the the hint of a different path. I’m aware that there is another path. I’ve even walked down it under some extreme circumstances involuntarily maybe. But now I want to figure out how to voluntarily walk down the essentialist path. Right?

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, right, exactly without having to end up in hospital or have a major worldwide pandemic.

Greg McKeown 

Right. Could I walk down this path without the threat of complete annihilation?

Emily Stewart 

Yeah.

Greg McKeown 

It’s amazing isn’t it really, that that’s what it takes. But there’s something very positive in what you’re saying. It’s, it’s, regardless of that, being the requirements in the past, you are in a place you haven’t been before because here you are ready to move forward. There’s a saying I love which is when the student is ready the teacher arrives. And I say that in the same sense with when the student is ready, the truth arrives.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

Going a bit much now, but when the traveler is ready the way arrives, the path arrives.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, it feels like that lots of in lots of ways in life at the moment, it feels that way.

Greg McKeown

So, so this leads to sort of the final area of exploration for me, which is what is the smallest, easiest, most sustainable steps that you could take to start going down this path? I’m talking like, smaller than you would generally think. Tiny and we’ll know when we’re there, whether we get there in this conversation or later as you ask these questions and reflect on them. Because there will be an immediate spark of energy within you and you is you say, I can do that. No, really, I can do that. I was just reading a lovely story about two medical practitioners in the room. And a woman who is not well in a variety of ways. She’s, she’s pretty depressed, she’s, she’s overweight, she’s, and she’s there. I can’t remember why. But the first medical practitioner turns to her and says, you know, look, okay, there are things you need to do you need to start exercising. And he goes to say, you know, you’re going to do half an hour a day but to do an hour a day. And the other person, the other practitioner looks at her eyes, you know, bags under her eyes exhausted, depressed and just thinks, yes, sure, that’s probably right. But there’s no way she’s doing that. So, all you’re gonna create is guilt for her, you’re not going to empower her, you’re not going to help her doesn’t matter what your motive is. It won’t help. So, this is all going on inside of him. And so he blurts out this. He sort of cuts cuts the first off, and he says, He says, Listen, could you take one minute a day to march  in place while watching TV and eyes light up, right? Because it’s that little energy we just talked about, I can do that. I really can do that. I don’t have to say I’m going to do something I’m not going to do I can actually achieve this goal without feeling overwhelmed. And so for the next 30 days, she actually does it consistently. When they come back for the next checkup. She looks a little different in a you know, just in her energy. And she asks the doctor okay, what’s one more thing I can do in one minute a day?

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

That’s what I’m really asking for, you know, I don’t know that you have the answer or I do. But we should ask the question together, what is a change you can make in one minute a day to try and make this path to walk towards this new way of being?

Emily Stewart 

It feels like it’s something to do with that idea, this shift about protecting the asset for me that feels like it’s gonna be key in there somehow. In terms of how I approach my day, I mean, this is something I’ve intended to do for years and well written down in my list of intentions at the beginning of every year and never really done it. But just to check in with myself in the morning, see how I feel that day?

Greg McKeown 

Doing a health check.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, I mean, do one at the end of the day, that back on the day and think how was that Where was I at what was going on? You know, how was my energy and my how I felt. But I think at the beginning of the day, maybe it would help set the tone. If I wake up exhausted, then I can at least have the opposite. I feel like I’m going kind of right to say, Okay, I’m not going to achieve much today.

Greg McKeown 

Yeah, I think I think that’s right. And I think this is it sounds. What I hear when you say it is that it’s something meaningful to you. First of all, it’s something you’ve wanted to do. You don’t do it. I’m reading into the reason that you haven’t done it because you think of it being a big thing that you need to do it in a big way. Whereas, for example, one, one micro way to do what you just described, would be just every time you wash your hands. While you’re washing your hands, you say, Okay, how am I doing mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually, you know, mind body, heart spirit, you’re just doing a quick, you know, it’s few seconds. We’re all supposed to wash our hands better than we used to.

Emily Stewart 

She’s really edgy for me, you know, I’ve got some massive to do list to kind of tick off. And I’m saying to myself, actually, I haven’t got the energy for that. But that’s not what I’m talking about here is it? It’s not what I do with it afterwards. It’s just the first thing which is the check in.

Greg McKeown 

So maybe that itself is too much it could be maybe it’s just the first time that you do or while you’re cleaning your teeth in the morning, maybe it’s more like that. It’s just that one time but it’s just a very micro health scan.

Emily Stewart 

Exactly, yeah.

Greg McKeown 

And one of the things I like about it too for you is that you know a s a nurse, you understand the role of the health checking. Maybe it’s the   first thing you’re going to ask beyond just the general, you know, how’s your day. It’s how are you? How are you feeling? Yeah. Why do we do that? Why is that important? Well, that’s our, that’s our reality. That’s our beginning place, we’ve got to start where somebody is.

Emily Stewart 

Right.

Greg McKeown 

And it makes perfect sense to me that if you do it for you, you’re going to be more aware of the current condition of the asset. And so that will be will relate to the decisions of the day.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, you know, I do it lot at my job, that’s for sure. And I think also going back to your concentric circles, my life is normally is lived thinking about you know, how do I sort all these problems out there going on around me with this and my job or whatever, but it taking it away from the focus on that back into the asset. Even if I’m not aware of how I would then proceed doesn’t matter, because it’s just taking the focus away from what’s not essential in that moment. Even though it might seem important. It’s not where my focus should be. So even if it’s just that short moment of focus inward, I felt that that would be a really powerful practice.

Greg McKeown 

I do too. And another reason we want it to be within this one-minute frame is because we want it to be not one time. We want it to be every day. And so, it’s something to be every day.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

Sometimes I’ll go to events and I have speakers and conferences I go to and some people say these things are hardly with a thought, well, for every day of your life from now on, do this. And there’s someone who really take seriously what you say yes to what you say no to and I’m trying to be designed for and thoughtful about what to put into my routine and in my life and what to pick up and what not to, I, I’m amazed at the ease with which these phrases come. Just add this thing it’ll take, it’s easy, just 10 minutes a day, and I think 10 minutes a day. Do you know that? Do you know the mathematics on that? If you had some 10 minutes a day for the rest of my life, that requirement you just gave is like, it’s I don’t know, it’s like, having a new child.

Emily Stewart 

I know, isn’t it say that 10 minutes should seem so insurmountably huge in a day, but it does

Greg McKeown 

But when you add, especially when you add it up, when you add up all the days, follow in so if you want to add something, it must be tiny. So that we go yeah, I can do it. So just give me a sense of where and when you would do it. We’ve talked about the washing of the hands, but that might not be the one for you. So, tell me where and when will you do this micro check in.

Emily Stewart 

Well, I could make it very similar to my evening checking in, I have a little book and it lives in the bathroom. And so just before I go to bed,

I write in it. So, it could be when I’m in the bathroom in the morning. It could be cleaning my teeth or something like that, you know, whatever I do. I do clean my teeth every day. So, yeah, it could be that.

Greg McKeown  

Yeah, I love that you’ve already got a book there. You’ve already got a routine for doing it. Now you’re just building the routine in the morning for the check in at the beginning of the day. And then the check in at night. I don’t know if it’s a check in at night, or is that what you’re doing at night? Or is it a journal entry?

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, I track my cycle. So, I just have a day for each day of my cycle. And I just write a couple of sentences very little, but it’s just a way of tracking like, oh, yeah, that’s where I am at the moment. oh, yeah, that’s going on. It’s just I’ve been doing it for years and years and years and it’s a touchstone of my day. So, this would be quite possible to add in, I think the opposite end of the day.

Greg McKeown 

Yes, I wonder whether there’s something like, I don’t know if this is too much, but maybe it’s a score for how you’re doing one to ten. Or it’s maybe it’s in those four areas, and you’re just giving yourself a score and each of them, zero to ten. And the whole thing is a 10 second process, especially if you had rows already drawn or something and you’re just you just quickly tap the touchstones a perfect word. A little touchstone on each of those four things and, and the goal isn’t change. The goal isn’t design. It’s just awareness. I was just doing an event today. And after I done the virtual keynote, we had a q&a with a panel and one of the people in the panel ended the whole event by taking two minutes to lead us through a guided meditation, which I happily was part of I loved that it was literally two minutes, by the way, I thought that was so, you know, light and doable. But then also, as he was doing it because we’ve just been talking about prioritization and protecting the asset, as we’re doing this meditation, he added this phrase, he said, you know, as we were getting into this meditative state, he said, this is where priority prioritization begins. And I loved having that experience in that moment of really connecting the dots. Yes, when you are quiet when you’re pausing, for awareness that is going to be the beginning of prioritization naturally, even without trying to make it, so I think the same for this. Just being aware. In the awareness. Good things will come Especially when you add it, you know, five days in a row, eventually it’s 30 days and it’s, you know, becomes this norm. So that’s it. That’s the only thing I would suggest you do differently per the conversation today, that there may be other things that come over time. But if you make that one tiny change, it can, in my opinion, change both the direction and even the trajectory of the rest of your life. I believe that these things can add cumulatively.

Emily, it has been a real pleasure just to have a conversation with you today.

Emily Stewart

Yeah.

Greg McKeown

I appreciate so much you taking the time.

Emily Stewart

Yeah, I do. I do as well.

Greg McKeown

I know it’s late in England, and I appreciate your openness. I appreciate your service.

Emily Stewart

Likewise.

Greg McKeown

I appreciate your candor. Your awareness, your vulnerability. I’m sure you’ve heard the idea that that which is most personal is most universal.

Emily Stewart 

I haven’t heard that phrase before. But yeah, I believe it to be true.

Greg McKeown 

And I think it will be true in this as well. In fact, who cannot relate to what you’ve been talking about today? Every everybody knows these challenges and I think that the conversation will be useful to many people listening to be able to make their own micro adjustments in protecting the assets so that they can live a more essentialist path by choice.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, by choice.

Greg McKeown 

Not just by requirement.

Emily Stewart 

By joyful choice. Thank you so much.

Greg McKeown 

Emily, it’s been a real pleasure.

Emily Stewart 

Yeah, real pleasure.

Greg McKeown

Thank you.

Emily Stewart

Thank you.

Essentialism Podcast

Greg McKeown

Wheelhouse Entertainment

Credits:

  • Hosted by Greg McKeown
  • Produced by Greg McKeown and Wheelhouse Entertainment
  • Executive Produced by Greg McKeown, Avi Gandhi, Brent Montgomery, Eric Wattenberg, and Ed Simpson
  • Edited by Emma Gladstone and Deanna Markoff