49. Matthew McConaughey on Fifty Years of Greenlights (Part Two)

Speakers

Greg McKeown, Matthew McConaughey 

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Greg McKeown     

One of my favorite stories in the book is the Dooleys, which seemed to me if I’m reading it right, perhaps the most formative experience outside of your family, maybe of your whole life because of that transition moment. And what a bizarre experience it was and how isolating, you know, the experience was. That is a I mean, of course, there are tough and, you know, measurements of what tough is, but that for you was a very tough experience. Tell us the story. I mean, right, just from the beginning. It’s an amazing story.

Matthew McConaughey     

Well if I tell it well, it’s a 43 minute tell. We don’t have 43 minutes, so just say reading the book or listen to it on Audible. But yeah, so I would say that year and the fact of my father dying were the two biggest seminal moments. But I would agree with you, let’s go to the Australian story because that one’s particular to me. Everyone’s had a father, a mother, or a sibling that died, and we know how that makes us be essential. Well, the Australian story I come out of high school and talk about a man catch a young man catching green lights. Hmm, I’m rolling. Meaning my family you had to again, follow the rules, discipline, be home curfews, do your chores, make your grades everything until the day you were 18 and the day you turned 18, and my family was like a freedom. It was like okay, no more curfew. Whatever if you hadn’t learned it yet, you’re not gonna. Well, I’ve just got that newfound freedom got no curfew, I got a job that’s keeping 45 bucks in my pocket at all times. I got a four handicap and golf. I’ve just made my second hole in one 11 days after I made my first hole in one. I’m dating the best-looking girl at my school and across town. I got a paid for car. I just won most handsome in my senior year. I’m rolling.

Greg McKeown     

If we could put it this way you were all right. All right. All right. All right. Like that’s a lot.

Matthew McConaughey     

I’m catching green lights, baby. So I get this idea. My mom brings it to me what about being an exchange student. I like every kid going into college not sure what I want to be. Boy but a year abroad, that sounds great. Well, there are two slots Sweden or Australia. I go my 18-year-old mind, English speaking, Elle Macpherson, beaches, Australia. Here I come. So bang. I head off to Australia. Now the family is gonna take me in right through this. No. Hey, Matthew. Looking forward to you coming over here to Australia. We got a great little spot just on the outskirts of Sydney. You gotta love it. Well, I’m looking up Sydney beaches, all those things of dreams of Australia. In my eighteen-year-old mind, I’m like the green lights are going to continue. Well, that family picks me up at the airport. And anyway, after about a three-hour drive to the outskirts of Sydney. Mind you, I landed in Sydney, three-hour drive unless you’re going in circles does not mean outskirts of Sydney. We land in a small country house in the middle of the country. No neighbor in eyesight, no beach in eyesight. It’s desert. car stops. Welcome to Australia. Well, okay. All right. I immediately, which is my ethos to go, not what I was expecting to myself, but I can make this work. I was born in a small town. I like country living, cool. Well, some things start to happen that are very odd and strange. And again, go into book or hear the audible for the details. It’s some wild stuff. It’s sort of a wonderful black comedy at my expense if you want to laugh. But I, I would things were happening to me. And I didn’t have they were going against my grain. But I didn’t have I didn’t know if it was a cultural difference. Or if it was just me, because I didn’t know what I stood for what I didn’t, I couldn’t stand up for myself. I didn’t have an idea.  So I just took it on and kept saying yeah, I guess that’s probably just a cultural difference. I didn’t have those friends to ask. I didn’t have my mom and dad to ask, what do you think about this, I didn’t have that job that we bought for 12 bucks in my pocket. I didn’t have purpose. I didn’t have the girlfriend here. The girlfriend crossbow. I didn’t even have my golf clubs.

Greg McKeown    

Mmhmm.

Matthew McConaughey     

And I had a curfew at 10pm. So I went in reverse my life got constricted and talked about essentials. My essential who did I had one person that I could rely on? Or one person I didn’t know if I could rely on him but one person that I could

Greg McKeown     

One asset

Matthew McConaughey     

One asset to go to try and navigate this and that asset was me. And I took up some very awkward disciplines to try and manage which we do sometimes when we’re losing our mind to create disciplines because I needed daily measurement of accomplishment whether it was running miles or becoming a half assed vegetarian, just something that I could accomplish that I knew I did that. Okay, check checking, check that off my list. Just to keep my sanity. Well, after about four or five months of me losing it and writing I’m writing 14-page letters. To Guess Who? Me I’m returning 14-page letters back from the 14-page letter I received from me going a little crazy.

Greg McKeown 

I actually think you probably were I mean, I like that that that doesn’t seem like an exaggeration, but you were on the it seems to me from reading it on the edge of this just like no I’m gonna have a mental break. That’s how I read it. Is that Is that how it was?

Matthew McConaughey     

It was but here’s what is lost is I was and it was mad as I was going. And people say this all the time, why the hell didn’t you come home? I was never coming home. I had in this year If it was are you kidding me? This is crazy. Just pull the parachute go back home was the overriding song. I always had this little whisper going out I’ll endure this thing, It’s like minutes. It was and so what happens I started to actually feel empowered by the day doing it again and I started to build up sort of like this, look at me. Building up muscle callus and going like with every day that I endure this it’s another A piece of almost pride and honor of like, look at you, man stick through this, you’ll outlast this there’s a prize on the other side. I don’t know what it is. But boy that prize keep the reward is getting greater with each day you endure. So I started to get a little bit of that going. And what happened was one night they at the dinner table said, we’ve decided this is the father Mr. Dooley, we’ve, we’ve decided that from now on for the duration of your stay, they love to say duration, the duration of your stay. Right? You will refer to us as mum and pop. And it was the first thing that I immediately knew without intellectualizing. No, I’m not calling anything else. Mom and Dad, whatever. I got a mom and dad. Now mind you. I remember as I write in the book, I even remember saying verbally this little context, which now is so funny, because I’m like, what does that mean? I go, I’ve got a mom and dad. And they’re still alive. I remember say, like that, like that kind of might shift them and one. Oh, think of that. Now we understand. But anyway, it didn’t. I said, I’ve got a mom and dad, I’m not gonna call anyone else mom and pop mom and dad, thank you for thinking of me that way. was the first thing that was clear that in the moment, I said, No. That’s not happening, process of elimination, let’s eliminate them. It was it was the lightning bolt in my year. Very first thing I had in five months that I’ve been over there that I was clear about. So I got identity from it. I got resistance. They said no. Yes, you will call us that. No matter what you say. That is what you call us. And I did not call them that. I said goodnight to them. by their first names. I went to bed that night, woke up the next morning at 6am to screaming tears. He won’t call me mom. It would did it wasn’t like it was over it. We got Carney again. But my clarity choice.

Greg McKeown     

That was the moment in the story for me that I’m like, Oh, they are actually the just bonkers. You know, like it’s even asking you to do it, of course is a violation. But then for the next morning at that to be is if that was something you were doing to damage this, the woman that you’re staying with that that somehow was a different line.

Matthew McConaughey   

It was a different line. But I gotta say this and I don’t know where this came from with me as an 18-year-old. But I went up and sat down with her and put my arm around her and cried with her. Was I crying my own tears because I needed to purge. Yes, but was I also crying because man, that’s odd or that sad that that meant so much that that movie so much that it hurts. So I had him and I don’t know where it at last but not 18 I don’t I don’t know. But that moment was major for me.

Greg McKeown     

Well, what it sounds like is that you discovered I think a lot of us discover our values in their violation. Yep. Whether we violate them, we make a mistake and we just go mad, that is just wrong. Right? You can never do that again. Or whether somebody crosses some line and we didn’t know the line existed till they crossed it. And now you have not words on a page hey, these are the things I say I value. You know, these are real. These you will not violate these you will fight for these there is it is a clear, vibrant. No. That’s what this moment seemed to be.

Matthew McConaughey     

That’s the process of elimination in another way right there. It wasn’t what I’m for. It was no what I will not do that’s a violation. I love that line. We discover our values in their violation. That was a violation of a value and a principle of mine. And it was clear in a time when I’m going I don’t know who I am. I don’t know what I’m doing here. I’m lost. I’m lonely. I’m going insane. Oh, you gave me clear resistance. You gave me clear violation. You gave a clear that’s trespassing.

Greg McKeown    

Yes.

Matthew McConaughey    

And I remember for the first time where everything else I had said Oh, it’s a cultural difference to culture. The first time I live I said to myself and I even wrote it in a paper I was like culture difference or not? If it is a cultural difference within this is where I’m just different.

Greg McKeown    

Yes.

Matthew McConaughey    

It was the first time I was able to say that, believe that and understand that. And so from then on, I had a stance. It’s like I had the more gravity in my shoes, my feet were my heels were on the ground more, I kind of gave me a pump up of like, yeah, you made a mark, and you made it on and I made it on my own. I had to come up with it. And then we want to check in I didn’t go, Hey, we’d like you to call us mom and pop hang on a second. Hey, what do you think about that? Should I there was no discussion, it was me and me. And in the moment, it was like no intellectual discussion. No, that will not pass muster. That’s not going to happen. Gave me great identity that I needed. And that very small thing that seemed that just that very specific moment, that very specific violation, as you put it that I said that is a violation. That’s not up for debate. That’s non-negotiable. That’s what I knew I had no non negotiables in my life. And finally, I was given a non-negotiable.

Greg McKeown     

It seems perhaps, that the non-negotiable on the surface is no, I’m not going to call you know, Mom and Dad, I’m not doing that. But underneath it, given when I connect the dots between your no 10 goals in life, what you’ve, you know, you’re trying to pursue now, it seems like underneath it, there was a value really serious value of family. Like, you know, no, you can you can have rules, you can do all these things, but underneath this, there are some relationships that are different to all others. Yes. That seems to be the deeper, you know, like underneath the iceberg, like underneath the surface.

Matthew McConaughey     

100%. Look, we and I talked about it in early stories with our family and the love in our family was never questioned I saw my mom and dad fight. I saw my brother and dad fight. I tell stories of corporal punishment that I do not judge against actually seeing that says great love stories when I tell him I hope you get that from the reading and the listening to but if there is a violation of family our whole family is all hands on deck. It’s not just it’s you don’t you don’t it doesn’t matter what you’re doing. You drop whatever you’re doing to go the go defend blood, or to go love blood, you don’t hold grudges. And even then in the part of the book where I talk about my mom and I didn’t talk for eight years after I got famous because she wanted my fame more than I did. Hmm, well, we didn’t talk for eight years. But if I got a call from my brother said mom sick, I’m I leave whatever I’m doing to go home. I mean that it trumps all gestures, not only trumps all gestures, and for me and always has. Um, and that’s the family’s always been one of those non negotiables do because I don’t ever, you know, you hear our family is highly dysfunctional. You hear families, lie, cheat and steal from each other. We’ve never had that in our family. If we didn’t, the rest of the family would absolutely form tackle that person, pin them to the ground until they cried mercy and said, I don’t know what I was thinking I’m sorry, I seek retribution, then we would lift them up so quick and so high into their feet would come off the ground and set them up, look them in the eye and go. Now we’re going to mix your favorite drink. Glad we got that out of the way.

Greg McKeown     

When you have that description, it’s like obviously you’re being you’re, you’re just making up that story. But really, that’s not much of a of a fictionalized tale you just told that is really how your family of origin was. That is what it’s about. You know, that wasn’t far. That wasn’t much of a story.

Matthew McConaughey     

Actually, that has happened. You know, I’ve had that happen to me at a time where I was getting rolling Hollywood thinking that my stuff didn’t stink, and I’m back, I’m kind of walking on my toes and thinking I got it all figured out. And then I finally starts just slowly kind of coming in with jabs. And in my family, you got to be able to defend your jabs. And if you can’t come back or be able to laugh them or if you’re taking yourself too seriously. Then they know they got an in, they found a crack. And they’ll do it until it implodes, and you don’t go to sleep that night. It’s gonna happen tonight somewhere tonight we’re going to blow this thing up. Later into the night, libations about, everyone’s out and we’re out in a great spot at a ranch a lot of open space where you can hide and if you run, they’ll come chase you down. And all of a sudden it just comes to where they get it to boil over and that’s when they BAM pin you to the ground and you go like okay, okay, okay, okay, I’m sorry. You’re right. And as soon as you say that, admit it. Like I said, I’ve been grabbed, picked up where my feet came off the ground. Looked, hugged, tears fell. Dang it. What’s your favorite drink, I’m mixing you one. Glad we got that out of the way. Good to see you, little brother. Good to see you again, son.

Greg McKeown   

You’re going to have the conversation. It’s gonna happen.

Matthew McConaughey      

It’s gonna happen tonight. We don’t go to sleep on it. We don’t pick this up tomorrow is gonna happen tonight. We miss work tomorrow If we miss school next week, whatever who cares? It’s happening. Until we can cry it out, level out, look each other in the eye and go got it. Love you love you always love you love is never in question she didn’t like who you were who you were always loved you boy, I didn’t like that guy. And I don’t think either. We’re not gonna let you get away with being that guy. And now that you go, yeah, you’re right. Damn. Hugs go around, fix you your favorite drink. Now we’re good. Never bring it up again.

Greg McKeown     

Let me ask you this question. Some people, some people don’t like to go there with this. But if you’re vulnerable enough to do it, the way I think you will be what is something in your life right now? first answer first thought that is essential for you. It’s very important that you feel like you’re under investing in, first thought?

Matthew McConaughey  

First off my, my role as a leader.  

Greg McKeown     

And you mean, in the biggest sense? You don’t mean, I don’t think you’re saying with your you know, your marriage leading together, family, you mean stepping up into a bigger into a bigger role than you’ve played in the past.

Matthew McConaughey     

Yeah, I gotta quit acting like one. Start being one. I’m doing movies. I’m doing someone else’s script. Someone else directing someone else’s lens to me in the camera, someone else is editing me. Then it’s put together and you go see the theater. That’s four filters from my raw expression. I write a book. It’s still one filter, it’s a written word. Well, okay, put the pen down. Okay. It’s live man. You don’t need you actually was called one time when you were born cutter, we will call one time when you die. What do we do not go represent be the representation of what you’re talking about what you believe, have the courage to go live it.

Greg McKeown     

And I mean, I understand what you just said, you’re saying, I’ve been given all this, all this opportunity. I’ve had this, you know, there’s amazing chance. I’ve got a chance to be more. Well, I’d say that way more than famous. I have a chance to be a voice that rather than just someone else’s voice.

Matthew McConaughey     

A living representation of. Yeah, that comes with words and there’s microphones and there’s voice, but I’m doing alright, what do I need to do? I come on, let’s get let’s you know, quit half assing it. I mean, don’t think, oh, then I’m not dead. I’m not going like boohoo. And no, no, I’m just saying like, Okay. All right, good. But I’m not like, woo hoo.

Greg McKeown     

I think what you’re saying is that you you’ve been full on a whole series of things, but it’s almost like let’s call it goal number 11. is like there’s an area that I haven’t really set but I have started to sense over I’m putting words in your mouth, but over the last few years, you’ve sensed I’ve got to be something else. I wasn’t given all of this for me. I got to go and do something with it.  

Matthew McConaughey     

What do you mean by it?

Greg McKeown     

What did you have to go and do?

Matthew McConaughey  

Well, it’s a version of what’s my why which I answered in three different ways, and I don’t know if I gave the straight answer yet, you know what I mean? And that’s sort of one of my blind spot. I think I said, I think I understand the why as to how

Greg McKeown     

You have an intent towards a certain direction. But you don’t yet know, in tangible form what it is exactly.

Matthew McConaughey   

I don’t know what, you know, I’ve been I’m looking at different categories, looking like different leadership categories. I’ve been considering certain things in politics,

Greg McKeown     

Right, you could run for office, to run for office, you could run for governor of Texas, could start a church.

Matthew McConaughey     

I could start a church. Could continue with what I’m calling my ministry of culture, work and trying to define and get sell to individuals, families, cities, institutions and businesses, a common set of denominators that we all agree on moving forward, regardless of your political choice or your denominational choice.  

Greg McKeown     

The new metric institute.

Matthew McConaughey     

Yeah. Civility of civics. I look at you know, trust is at an all-time low. Hmm. What no doubt, that’s not that’s not, that’s not a way to go. We’re moving into a digital age. But yet we’re being asked to trust more. But yet, we’re going like, Well, wait a minute. I’m all you asked me to live more remotely. But and I’m only seeing you through the screen. But is this my number? And you’re asking me to trust you with my information with my money with my IP? With these things? Guy? And I don’t even see it? It’s in a cloud somewhere. It’s in the third cloud, what?

Greg McKeown   

If you had to choose between those categories right now. Right, you know, the gun to the head thing. You got 10 seconds you’re choosing right now are already eight, seven, which category would you choose?

Matthew McConaughey 

Minister.

Greg McKeown   

Would you? And so you would you would start a church? And is this a church in your head? Is it a is it a big church on Sundays, one of these mega churches? Would it be a mega church? Or is it something different to that?

Matthew McConaughey     

It’s not a mega church of a physical congregation? It could be but I’m also looking at No, it’s more like it’s more like enough ants can bring down the elephant. And what I mean, I want to go all the way down. I believe the private sector has more power right now than at any time and that I can remember. And I mean, when I say private sector, I mean, all the way down to the individual. If I can inspire the individuals to understand that you’re the Minister of your church, man, you are the minister, I’m not that I may, I may be the one that started this and can get the vision out. But don’t you understand? I can’t do it for you. Nobody can. You’re the Minister of your own church. So let’s do some inventory. Take some time and what is your church of who you are? Your DNA, your constitution, and maintain it.

Greg McKeown     

You would set up a platform of some kind that could empower an enormous number of people to take responsibility to become to figure out their ministry. To take it seriously. And to bring that forth in the world. That’s what you want to do.

Matthew McConaughey     

Yeah, and look, I’m not inviting you tyrants No tyrants welcome. You want to come from another religion you got another god you’re a Hindu, your career your Muslim? Come on your spiritual you’re agnostic, you’re atheist Come on. Not excluding. We’ve taken it we’ve corporatize it. We’ve had an inclusion with exclusion. We’ve cut people out. We’ve been lied, cheated and stole too. But that doesn’t mean religions bad. It means mankind’s done with it’s bad. And I think the ones who use religion now more than ever because it’s a great tool and everything’s religious if it’s got an intent and aim, which I think we all do. So whatever your God or prime mover, or Big Bang or Darwinistic evolution, or agnosticism, atheism, Hindu, Jewish, whatever, come on, man. We’ve got a common set of denominators here that we all agree on what we should value in ourselves and each other, and it’s going to take some sacrifice, we got to have a little bit longer view of where we deem ourselves gratified. We’re hung up on this immediate result, Bs. And time and time again, we see that it doesn’t pay the rent for a long. Time and time again, we see it as a green light. But it’s a battery powered green light, not a solar powered dream light. And if you don’t want to chase down, you don’t believe in God help trace Chase, you’re better and true yourself. Chase your more transcendent self. Sure, who out there does it want to be a little truer a little bit better tomorrow?

Greg McKeown     

You’re saying put away the labels. We actually agree on way more than we disagree on. Let’s be in service of each other to do something that really matters. And you what would success look like for you sitting here right now when you say I would know I had checked that off? Or at least be able to say like the other 10 Look, I’m on I’m on the path. You’d know that you were feeling good if what?

Matthew McConaughey  

I think here because I have ideas for like, what I think immediate, measurable success would be I believe that crime rates could go down. I believe that more employees could be happier doing good work in the company they’re working for I believe divorce rates would go down. And I believe that an equal opportunity. I’m not sure about the definition always moving definition of equality. I’m not I’m not looking for a Kumbaya existence. And I’m not looking for Hey, we’re all the same. I believe in Hey, bring your tribe wave your flag. Same onto the same party. I like your difference

Greg McKeown     

Unity in diversity. But what is it for you? What does what does success not just the end result? But what would success be for you’re part of this journey? Like how would you know you were making meaningful progress on goal number 11.

Matthew McConaughey     

Quality of Life across the globe would improve. Gross National Happiness would rise with GDP. Redefining what happiness is. More joy in the doing. You know, it’s a good question. I don’t know what the final answer would be. I think what I’m challenging is we need to change our perspective, and definition of how we see what we call success. As I said, currency, even the definition of religion. What we’re chasing, I think we’re selling I think our scale of what we sell to the world, and especially younger people is in the wrong order. What we define as wealth, what we define as true profit. If it’s all about who makes the most money, then we’re all gonna lose in the end. If that’s it, then we all gonna lose. I mean, it’s got to be about more than that. That’s when I say bank account and souls account. Now more than ever, that’s why I don’t think I don’t think politics is my category I think I think right now my hunch is that go through businesses it is playing to the people that have the power play into the people with the money that they’re the ones that can help make change. Is that a time that every that businesses give back to certain cities? I’d like to see the city that I’m from become a city that hires more graduates from the local university than any other city. Can places become B Corp headquarters of the world? Can we have more B corps across the board and have CEOs go Yeah, I’m gonna pay that time I’m agreeing to pay that duty to the city I’m in or to this problem particular problem in the city.

Greg McKeown    

I hear you circling.There’s no criticism in that I just am observing it that it is back to this idea of like, I just feel a personal responsibility to do something about these bigger issues that I’m observing and feeling not beyond I mean, the book is important, but and I think it’s a manifestation of this sense in you already. That you’re like, well, I gotta be a leader. Okay, well, a book is at least a piece of that I can do it. It’s a number one New York Times bestseller. It’s actually it’s more than that. It’s a phenomenon.

Matthew McConaughey     

It’s opened up a bit more of a lane for me as well. Because the lane I’m going down as you said is not like Okay, that was the book now that’s out of the way. A lot of you want to know who I am my best. Bye bye. Resume would be handy the book. Yeah.

Greg McKeown     

Yeah, exactly. And what I hear you saying I think this is a fair enough way of saying it’s like greenlights is, is the initiation, a spark of what I hope is a movement?

Matthew McConaughey    

Yes. Exactly.

Greg McKeown    

So it’s I want to bring about a week, let’s give a phrase, a green lights movement. So maybe, maybe if we’re now getting trying to get more concrete, maybe it’s launching, you know, the green lights Institute. Right. And it’s a you can have a greenlights Institute, that’s a nonprofit, if you wanted to do it that way. I could see, you know, Arianna Huffington is a friend of mine. And you know, with her thrive global, she’s created a platform where people can talk about, I mean, not dissimilar in the sense of like, she’s saying, look, success has to be better than how we’ve been defining it in the past, it’s got to include a broader sense of thriving, not just, you know, not just money and fame. And it’s, she’s created that platform of those two options like an institute, like a nonprofit institute that tries to create policy and space there, that’s what they call it, option one. And option two, you have an actual sort of digital platform where people can communicate and it’s kind of a thrive global type thing of those two, which speaks to you most?

Matthew McConaughey   

Now, what’s the second one is I get online to destination online where people come to the proverbial greenlight Institute, or the proverbial Church of their choosing, and that within the institute that

Greg McKeown  

Thrive global is, is like web, I mean, I think she has I don’t know the number now. But like 30,000, different writers, anyone, you know, not anyone, but almost anyone can come and write and they can, they can publish and in certain categories, and so it’s an opportunity to have more and more people communicate and, and share around the themes of thrive. So I could imagine a similar thing, but around green lights and a series of principles you care about, of those two, which just hits you when I’m sharing it?

Matthew McConaughey     

I understand the first one more clearly. I understand the first one as a destination and the curation of thoughts and a place to go, you know, what I thought and a redefinition of what the thrive is.

Greg McKeown     

Option two is for is like for the masses, where you’re saying, I’m going to start a website, it’s going to have the opportunity for people to publish and share their thinking. And, and it’s, I mean, really, I mean, she started Huffpost at one time, and that became, you know, massive, millions and millions were the most visited sites on the internet. And now, in a sense, she’s doing the same thing. But now with a very, you know, like an agenda with it. It’s like, I want people to come and be able to talk and learn and discuss these themes.

Matthew McConaughey      

Mine would democratic way. The second for the for the masses. Yep. Just because I, again, if we individually, it has to be personal. And if we individually have to have our own talk in the mirror. And so that’s a much more democratic idea that if I can get to the individual, how’s that? You know, I don’t think it’s self-help. I don’t need self-motivation. It is those things but

Greg McKeown     

you don’t like that framing of it. But you think it still is probably in some close to that arena?

Matthew McConaughey     

Well, alright, like this, you know, I understand it’s hard to change people’s behavior. And I’m a big fan of Hey, actually the arts in the engineering and if you engineer a situation, right, people do better for themselves without even knowing it. And boy, there’s a value in that and I’m for that, at the same time. I’m like, No, man, I’m telling you, we can change behavior. Redefine, we’ve got to redefine some words that we’ve kind of stereotyped into meaning for us about what meaning of life is and what we’re doing and what success is and what wealth is that If we I can measure that. And this is why I think it’s got to be for profit, because it’s actually in a way redefining what profit is because it’s should be for profit is, again of what currency? Hmm. But I also think it should be for profit, where you’re saying actually a company who practice this way, actually made more at the end of the year? Is it because we reward that company? Or is it actually because as I could, John Mackey with conscious capitalism would say no, actually, that’s where because that just better business? And we’re gonna see we’re gonna be more in the black at the end of the year because of it. Um, I don’t know exactly. But I think it has to be for profit. And it has to say that, look, there’s measurable reason why this adds value to your life, and your bank account, and your relationships.

Greg McKeown     

So if you launched a business, that itself was sustainable, profitable, but its result what its double bottom line, its other bottom line is that the output was that people were empowered in the way you’re describing, where they were able to understand clearer how they can make a unique contribution to the world, how they can recreate and invest in themselves in a way that they can bring forth more of that potential. You go, yeah, that I am good. I would feel satisfied.

Matthew McConaughey      

I’m firing out of bed on Monday morning. Now, I can’t wait to get to my desk, proverbial desk now. I’m going here we go. Now we’re live I feel this thing in action. It’s not excuse, you know, it’s not a destination, it doesn’t have a certain border around it that I’ve got to click in to get into it and then export the thing. No, it’s an epidemic. No, it’s the kind of epidemic we don’t want a vaccine for. Here we go, here we go. Now I’m feeling like we’re in the game. Now I’m breaking a sweat. Now it’s a verb.

Greg McKeown     

Yeah, what it seems to me is that you’ve spent years and years, it’s like something’s been growing. You’ve thought about it deeply. You’re not you’re not coming to this surface level. This is not like little platitude. But that it’s almost like a curse of knowledge. Because you go, I’ve got so much in my head about this, that I can only scratch the surface when I’m talking about it normally. And I can’t get any clearer to like, how do I actually start executing on this genuine and deep desire, that’s what I hear?

Matthew McConaughey     

Correct, you’re correct. That’s the that’s the place I am now and that I’m that I’m working on. And one of the reasons I’m really enjoying this conversation is you’re challenging me in ways that I’m going, Oh, I need I want to get to a place right, those answers are clear where I understand them. And I need to be challenged right now. And I’m welcoming those challenges because I got to my desk is full of wonderful ideas. And they’re in the funnel. They’re in the funnel with the why. But I got to find the how in all these and go wait a minute, let’s get rid of that crap on the desk because now we’re central right, as my button says, My buddy tells me I gotta trim the mullet.

Greg McKeown   

Yeah, trim the mullet, I like it. And it’s so broad, as I hear you talking about them. It’s because you care about these different principles. It’s not like you’re going well, that doesn’t matter. That doesn’t matter. They do all matter. But in a sense, it it keeps you from being able to actually feel like I’m making progress. We are going somewhere here. So okay, so let’s say so you let’s say you have a weekly, a weekly something. you’re interviewing someone people can tune in, people can come in they they can, okay, there’s it maybe there’s some sort of fee to enter right. There’s like some way they access this and All Access pass for a year or they come in once a week and Okay, there’s that element. Is that sufficient? I’m thinking it’s probably not sufficient for you. So beyond that, would you say, Oh, yes, I would love to have people, coaches certified in what we’re talking about. And they go out there and train people and work with people in small groups. When you hear that description, you go yes, I would love that.

Matthew McConaughey   

Yes, well, that’s very part and parcel with the original idea of whether it was called Green Light Institute or Ministry of Culture, that there become other ministers that become other head green lighters that creating greenlights for themselves and for the most amount of people. And where’s that choice, but that choice of considering with all the choices we make what’s good for me? And also, is this a good long-term decision? Am I going to look back and enjoy the view with this decision? And how many people does this help? And in so every night, I had a different minister that go off from the Ministry of Culture? Um, so yeah, that it would that that’s the kind of spread the epidemic that I’m talking about. And then you have people on the ground at different places, and there’s a network of those.

Greg McKeown   

Would you imagine that there was an online training, like actual, you know, some of those coaches come back and they actually are doing teaching segments and people can then watch those videos beyond the things that you yourself, where you’re interviewing people?

Matthew McConaughey     

Yes. And I would also want two at a time like this bring opposites together, meaning bring people from different religious tribes to come have a conversation. You know, I’ve thought about this, do I go on a and this is not the answer, but it’s another maybe spokes in the wheel. Do I take a tour like I was gonna do this book tour, I was gonna go off I was looking for I was gonna go all over and go do this live, do I take a tour, where the price of admission is, you come in because you pledged to do community service in the opposite part of town that you live in from both sides, and you come in and that’s your price of admission that you went over and you’re engaged in a place that you would not have before where this meet you in the middle not build a bridge meet you in the middle thing where we can find these common denominators that we’ve had before, which I think is something that overall we could all agree the world needs right now.

Greg McKeown     

Within this institute. I don’t know if that is the right word. But we’ll keep that word for now within this institute, you could have separate threads. And within those threads, one of the threads you like is like, Look, what is it? You know, what does it mean to be a good? A good man right now, you know, what are the what is a manifesto that we might, you know, create together that people can sign up for and say, Listen, I’m opting into this, because I want to make a difference. Right. And so you like there are different channels threads within this within this movement?

Matthew McConaughey     

Yes. And you know, Is it ones that people can pick along the way. I’m not interested in legislating these ideas. I’m not interested in mandating them. I mean, it’s your choice. And if you fail, if you seek real retribution and come back and go, I failed. I seek real retribution. We agree to seek retribution. Come on back in man. You need you screwed up. It’s not like Oh, you’re slammed you’re out. You’re pasted all over the news. You but now it’s not a legislation. I don’t want I don’t I don’t know what I don’t nobody likes to be told what to do. Especially me. I don’t want to be mandated anything. That’s why the political category does not feel like the right thing for me.

Greg McKeown     

Yep. Is it you aren’t trying to legislate this agenda you’re trying to but you’re still trying to have an agenda. But you want it to be people can opt into it. If they if there’s something if there’s not something here for them. Fine. You go your own way. But maybe this maybe Greenlights the book is not supposed to be just a book. Maybe it’s the beginning of a movement. And you want to see that come into fruition?

Matthew McConaughey 

Yes. Yes.

Greg McKeown    

It really matters. What you’re, you didn’t get given Greenlights for you. You didn’t get a book that is doing what this is doing for you. You didn’t just write a successful memoir. The book is a phenomenon, It’s obvious it’s going to be it’s going to reach to a lot of people. And this what you’re describing just has to happen. It needs to come into manifestation. That’s what I think. We’ll talk about more.

Matthew McConaughey 

Thank you. I’ll find you. Thank you, sir.

Greg McKeown    

Matthew. Real pleasure. Take care.

Matthew McConaughey 

All right.