3 Essential Ideas

  • Becoming clear about what really matters will guide all of the rest of our decisions 
  • Achievement does not bring fulfillment – purpose does.
  • Negotiation is just a conversation. Good negotiators understand what is important to the other person. They are curious, listen, and connect with others. 

1 Essential Action 

  • What key values, goals, or aspirations would you include in your personal mission statement? Create a high-level mission statement for yourself.

Key Moments From The Show 

  • How to gain clarity about what’s important so you peak at the right moment (10:33)
  • Creating a personal mission statement that can direct your life (12:45)
  • How to protect your own energy while meeting the expectations of others (15:29)
  • The danger of doing something impressive and mistaking it for something essential  (19:18)
  • Why you should pursue purpose over achievement (20:30)
  • How you can find both purpose and achievement (22:29)
  • Be gentle with yourself as you lean into change (25:45)
  • Lessons Molly has learned about negotiation (29:23)

Links You’ll Love From the Episode

The Energy Clock by Molly Fletcher

Connect with Molly Fletcher

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Greg McKeown, Molly Fletcher

Greg McKeown  0:04   

Come with me on an exploration of self-discovery. On this podcast, we decipher what really matters as we unravel the chaos of day-to-day work, to learn how to build an essential life.

I’ve been teaching recently, especially since writing Effortless, that we should not do more today than we can recover from today. But over the last two or three weeks, I’ve been in range violating that all the time,

I’ve still been showing up for the things that matter most to me. But I can feel a bit more depleted in my energy as the days go by, and it’s taking a toll. And I don’t think I’m the only one. I think, after a year and a half of the pandemic, with all the responsibilities of our lives, there are many people perhaps you as you’re listening to this, feeling the same, may be teetering right on the edge of exhaustion sometimes, or sometimes even fully past it. So for this reason, I’ve invited my friend, Molly Fletcher, to the podcast today, Molly has spent half a lifetime working with elite pro athletes negotiating on their behalf in a variety of ways to make sure that they were at their peak in the high-stakes moments of their careers.

And now she’s taking all of that experience in helping the rest of us to be able to do the same. She’s done many things, including writing a book called The Energy clock. But today, I really want Molly to help me and you to be able to manage our energy better, so that we can be in our prime to do the priority work of our lives. Molly Fletcher. Welcome to the Watts essential podcast. Great to be with you, Greg. Thanks for having me. Molly, can you give me a Reader’s Digest version of how you got here birth to this moment?


Molly Fletcher  2:04  

Wow, well, I’ll keep it tight. I grew up in Michigan, played tennis at Michigan State with two older brothers and two wonderful parents super grateful for my, for my family and then after I graduated from Michigan State playing tennis, I knew I wanted to stay in the business of sports. But, you know, I didn’t know exactly what that might mean, or what that would look like. But a couple of our friends, my friends from high school, and I just decided, You know what, let’s go somewhere. Let’s go somewhere. And let’s try to sort of dig into the sports marketing space somehow. And so we sat in my parents living room, and you know, thought about all these different cool places we could go and then we settled on Atlanta. Because the Super Bowl was coming, the Olympics was coming. There was a pro team sports teams. And so I moved down to Atlanta at 93. Without a job, Greg, I had 2000 bucks. And I had a friend who had gotten down before me a couple months prior to me. And so I slept on her couch. And I negotiated a gig to teach tennis at an apartment complex in exchange for my rent within about a week of arriving, which is huge because now my 1700 bucks would go a little farther, right? Yes. And so that gave me just a little bit of breathing room. Because, you know, the last thing I wanted to do was head back to Michigan sort of with my tail between my legs, not finding something and I got a couple different internships, paid internships and a couple different opportunities that fall in my lap. And then well, that I looked for and worked hard for and then and then I, you know, I had this sort of belief that when we ask for advice, we get a job. And when we ask for a job, we get advice. And so I began to connect with lots of different people with really this sort of mindset of how do I get them to like and respect me enough to want to help me or hire me. And so it was my full-time job to find a job that was more aligned in the sports space. I’d done a few different little sort of ads, and then gigs, Super Bowl host committee, some things. And then I got an opportunity to work at a small agency in Atlanta, where we had a few NBA coaches and a baseball player and I was hired to go do endorsement and appearance deals for the athlete and the coach that coaches that we had. And then after about a couple months of doing that, it was right around the Olympics, when they were in Atlanta. I thought how are we going to grow? I mean, how are we going to continue to get more athletes and coaches because that’s, that’s really where the opportunity is here to make a bigger impact. And so I presented a business plan to our leader and said, Hey, can I go start with baseball there’s all these baseball players in Atlanta let’s go sign more guys and represent them and do their deals and of course, our probably Greg was standing there in a pair of pink pants and heels. And he thought, well, how’s this gonna work? I mean, you certainly didn’t play the big leagues. And I fortunately he blessed it and I started recruiting baseball players and you know, fast forward 18 years I signed about 300 athletes, coaches, broadcasters, golfers, baseball players, etc. And then I wrote a book

Around the common thread between peak performers, their mindset, their beliefs. And then I wrote another one. And then companies started saying, hey, will we come talk about it. And so I started speaking sort of for fun. And then I thought, wow, this is really connecting with people, this metaphor of sports, is serving people, it’s helping people in really significant ways. This is interesting, I think this is actually more aligned with what I want to do, I want to run down this road, full time. And so now I speak about 80 days a year, we’ve taken I’ve written five books now. And we’ve taken a couple of those enrolled them up into training products full day, sort of live and virtual training programs inside of sort of those particular blocks of content. So that’s the Reader’s Digest version. I hope that was tight enough.


Greg McKeown  5:44  

Well, I loved everything you just shared, it all started with, you know, you actually doing the sports itself, it’s all grown out of that, you know, access to that interest in that experience with that, I mean, playing at the college level is, you know, a serious achievement. And it’s, it’s grown naturally from there. I mean, there’s many lessons you’ve learned through this experience. But tell me how have you come to this focus of managing energy versus just managing time, I sort of rewind the tape a bit, I remember sitting in my office with Matt Cuccia, who’s a PGA Tour player, and we had lots of golfers and I remember sitting in the office, and we were planning his tour schedule for the following year. And we were sort of looking at what courses he plays, while at how many weeks on how many weeks off? We were certainly looking at the majors, and how do we peak at the majors? How do we make sure that we that we plan our schedule in a way that we play well, and have the energy for the golf courses that we’ve had success on? We’ve consistently made the copper with top 10. So I would spend all this time with my guys and my gals getting really clear on? How do we spend our time aligning with and our energy aligning with what matters most in our lives, so that we peak in the big moments. And then I transitioned in the business world. And what I saw was so interesting, which is that, you know, business people sort of accept meetings, and then they get to these meetings, or these cocktail parties are these events, and they go, why am I here? What am I doing here? Do I really need to be here? Does this even really matter? And then, of course, the frustration builds, and then maybe they don’t have the energy for the thing that in fact, did matter the most in that day, in their life, or that week or that month. And so I began to recognize cash, what if business people could look at their lives through the lens of energy, in other words, look at their calendar through the lens of energy, and in fact, ensure that they aligned the things in their life that mattered most with their calendars. I had a baseball player, Greg, once, who he was a first-round draft pick, he was a stud he was going to sign for, you know, 10 plus million bucks coming out in the draft and total stud and we’re sitting in the office, he was coming out of high school as an 18-year-old kid from a very tough background. And we were sitting in the office and of course, he’s a top round pick. So companies are coming at him with autograph signing deals, you know, appearances, endorsement, deals, appearance, speaking engagements, all this stuff. And I’m bringing this to this young man who is 18 years old comes from a, you know, challenging background, and he can sit in his living room and watch cartoons and sign his name for an hour and make 15 grand. And the young man looked at me so you know, my, here’s what I know, I know that if I can get to the big leagues as quickly as I can, if I can put up great numbers, if I can play well in the field. If I can get the knocks, like I know I need to get at the plate, he said all of these things in spades will be there. So I want to make sure that I focus on what matters most. And then all of this will be there and more if I do that. And so to me ensuring that we as business people look at our calendars through the lens of the things in our lives that matter most. And you talk about this so well, Greg, as well. And then make sure that we’re chasing the right stuff, you know, make sure that our ladders leaning up against the right wall as we navigate our lives.

Yeah, there’s so much that’s interesting to me and what you’re saying. It seems like that problem of somebody going to some meeting going to some event that they don’t even know why they’re there. And they’re trying to make sense of it while they’re there. Where your calendar is really in control of your life rather than the other way around. Right? Like that’s problem one. And then problem two, is what you’ve been describing, where even if the thing is the most important thing and you’ve got that clear, it’s not obvious that you’re going to have the your peak energy at the peak moment. So I think that’s a really crisp, clear goal that you had with these high performance is how can you make sure you peak at the right moment? Well, I think, you know, what, what’s important? It’s clarity. Right? It starts with getting really clear. And one of the ways I like to think about is identifying the areas in your life where failure is not an option. You know, I, we do energized leader training and in our training, I’ll say to people, what are the areas in your life that matter so much to you that failure isn’t an option. And you know, what you hear as well, you know, my marriage, my children?


Molly Fletcher  10:29  

You know, my job is I mean, you hear all these different things. So so then you have to ask the question, what are you focusing your energy effectively in these areas? And so, getting clear is the first step I can imagine with pro athletes, you could look at the whole calendar year, and even multiple years in advance, depending on what sport they’re in and what their goals are. And identify here are the key competitions that you need to be at your peak for

in your coaching of other people. Now, beyond pro sports, do you find that you can do it in such a long-term approach? Or is it is the nature of life less predictable? than it would be for a pro athlete? How do you see that? Well, actually, I would challenge people really start with, you know, what is your purpose in life? Why are you here? What matters most to you? What is that? What is that thing? You know, I always find it interesting, Greg companies, they have mission statements and purpose statements and core values. And they lean into those to make decisions right about what to say yes to and what to say no to? Why don’t we as people to write because if we have a mission statement as an individual a purpose statement, then that allows us to use that as our filter. So I would say that clarity at the highest level 30,000 feet up is key. And then I would say do what I call an energy audit. Right? So pull back and say, what are the things in your life that give you energy? Do you have a particular structure for what a mission statement should look like? For a person that would help produce enough clarity that they would know what to say yes or no to? Because sometimes I find mission statements to be so general that they actually don’t produce the clarity. They’re supposed to? What have you guided people through that would, that would help others, including me to be able to do this better, to lead and fire and connect with courage and optimism? So I’ll, I’ll give you an example. I was at a keynote, so you can relate to this. And my husband was home and he works full time. And we have three daughters, and they were young at the time. And he was exhausted. I mean, he was just drained. He was frustrated. The kids were crazy. Work was busy. I was out of town for like the third night in a row. And I could tell he was just done. And he’s awesome. And we’ve been married almost 20 years. And as I was having this conversation with him, it was almost like he was frustrated with me. But it was a moment when I went okay, I could go back at him and say, What do you want me to? Do? You want me to come home? I mean, I’m obligated this keynote tomorrow. I don’t know what you want me to do. But it was a moment I remember so distinctly in Orlando standing in the lobby thinking, okay, live your mission, lead, inspire and connect right now with courage and optimism, handle this conversation in a way that allows you to connect, that allows you to inject some courage and some optimism inside of this moment versus, you know, going back at that moment and saying what can I do in this moment? So what you’re saying, I think, is that, you know, everybody has different things, if they’re paying attention to their life, which things which are the greens, which are the things that give you energy, which are the things that that drain you of energy, and try to protect more of the first and somehow reduce or even removed the reds, from your life. That’s that this is the energy audit. That’s what you’re describing? Absolutely. How can you protect your own energy while managing others’ expectations of you? both at work and at home? Yeah, I would, I would say, we have to, we have to give ourselves permission to say no, you know, we have to really give ourselves permission to say no, and the mindset shift there as that you’re saying yes to something that potentially prior to you’ve gotten clear on matters more. But we have to allow ourselves to let go and walk away and say no because we live in this world with phones and technology where you know, FOMO is real and people want to be everywhere in all things and that isn’t sustainable. And so we have to be intentional about having the courage to say no with love and with kindness. But to me, that’s what allows us to, to show up for the people that matter most. I mean, nothing breaks my heart more than, than people that wake up and go and go and go all day long. And they give their energy away to everybody at work. And then they get home. So the people in their lives that love them the most that matter the most, they don’t have any energy left for them.


Greg McKeown  15:26  

What’s the biggest fail, you’ve had with energy management?


Molly Fletcher  15:36  

You know, I would say, it goes back to when I was a couple years into Atlanta, I had you know, I was single, I was running around, I was recruiting baseball players, we were having great success. My parents flew down to come and see me. And they are at the time and still are two of the most important people in my life. And they land and I’m excited. I mean, they’re coming to see me in Atlanta, I moved, you know, way. And I’m you know, and we’re sitting at lunch, and the whole entire lunch, my phone rings and rings and rings and rings with one athlete after another calling, needing things. And I come back to the table after each call. And I sit down, and I keep going with the conversation with my parents who had literally just landed and we’re sitting at this table. And my mom sort of is very practical. And she’s looked at me and she goes, what do they want? And why can’t it wait? And I said, and it’s a really nice question.

Yes, she’s the truth-teller, Greg, and it was like, I turned to the fire hose on her. And I said, Oh, well, you know, his clubs didn’t get there in time. And he’s frustrated because, you know, he needs his Potter for this tournament. And you don’t want to use a different you know, and he’s frustrated because it’s pitching, you know, his pitching toe isn’t on his shoes. And he thinks he’s getting traded. And she’s not getting enough games. And she’s not getting enough units with ESPN. And she’s fresh. And I just turned the firehose on her like it was life and death.

And she just by the way, that she asked that question, by the way, that she looked at me at checked me, and she has been my energy clock. Greg, I mean, she is the person who I’d call up and say, All Mom, it’s unbelievable. I said, Look at me, we’re flying private. We got this, we’re going to this game when how cool wasn’t? She said, That’s awesome. Honey. I’m telling her how excited I am for something cool. And she says, how are the girls? How’s Fred? And it just rechecked me. And so I would say, you know, that was one moment at that lunch. But there’s been lots of little moments like that, where, whether it was my husband, whether it was my mom, where they serve as my energy clock to rely on me to get my bumper pads, sort of checked and keep me centered.

Underneath that story, I think there’s a distinction that I have struggled with, and still do, which is the difference between doing something that we think is impressive, versus doing something that’s actually essential?


Greg McKeown  18:11  

That’s right. And you know, when we’re around the people in our lives, who matter most, probably the things that we do, aren’t really that important to them. Right? What’s essential is being fully present for them. That’s really what they want. Right? It’s for us to really show up and be fully present. Yes. And when we get it wrong, it can create multiple levels of conflict, because on the one hand, you want someone to be impressed. But don’t you see this? This thing just happened? I was flying private with these pro athletes. And it’s, this is amazing. And how that feels on the other side of it is like, Yeah, but we don’t, we do care about you. But we don’t care about that. Exactly. Exactly. And you know, I think what this rolls up a little bit into is, is sort of what we were talking about earlier relevant to purpose because to me, what can happen to your point is, is that we get caught in this hamster wheel where we think it’s about achievement. But to me, achievement doesn’t bring fulfillment at all-purpose does. Right? Achievement is fleeting, fulfillment is lasting. And we know that relationships and human connection drive our human fulfillment. And, you know, I mean, having spent so much time with athletes who have won Cy Young’s who’ve won PGA tour events, who’ve won majors who’ve gotten Emmys. It’s really exciting in the moment, but then it goes away. And so if all we’re doing is chasing that next trophy, that next achievement, it’s never going to be enough and it’s actually empty. And so that’s why I’m so passionate about this because I think we as people have to chase fulfillment, not achievement, that that’s, in fact, what we as human beings really want most. I remember reading an article years ago, about the idea of the rise of the achievement ethic, and the fall of everything else, that this has become such a value. Now, I’m just riffing on it. But I sort of really imagine a future where there could be achievement anonymous sessions, where people really did get justice trapped, and just as addicted in achievement cycles, as other people have with drugs, or with alcohol, or with any number of other addictions, that difference between achievement and fulfillment.


Molly Fletcher  20:58  

I mean, that’s a really deep distinction. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. And, you know, I think at some level, historically, the traditional business environment has made people think that they have to pick that they have to choose achievement or fulfillment, that they can’t have both. But I think when we get really clear on things like our purpose when we get really clear on where our energy goes, we can, you know, as, as an Enneagram, three, right, I am all about getting after it and, and clipping away and sort of continuing to try to up my game.

But you can do it and marry it with fulfillment. And to me, that’s really the mission that, you know, some of us are on. And I think, recognizing that this can that has been present presented potentially as a bit of a false choice, that you can have one or the other. But you can’t really have both, right like that, if you’re going to choose that big career and that big job and that big title that, that you’re going to leave fulfillment to the side. Or if you’re going to choose fulfillment and work for nonprofit or stay at home and not work in the outside business world that you’ve chosen fulfillment. I think that we can have both with intentionality.


Greg McKeown  22:20  

I keep hearing you use the word intentionality. And of course, lots of people use that word now. Right? It’s a themed word. I wonder if what you mean when you say the word intentionality is more like trade-offs. If we make the right trade-offs, then we can get a better selection of the things that really matter to us. Yeah, I think you said that really? Well. I mean, I think that if, in part, it’s, it’s clarity, right? It’s, it’s that clarity. And then the intentionality to me is the behavior that ties to the clarity that you’ve created. What is something essential to you in your life right now that you’re under-investing in sleep, I need to do a little bit of a better job there as of late. I mean, traditionally, I’ve been I am a huge proponent of sleep, I think it is incredibly important.

But I have not done as good of a job as I need to. And that regard to me sleep as a superpower. It’s incredibly important. Yeah, I’ve put myself in that same category.


Molly Fletcher  23:32  

I’m, I haven’t been especially well over the last couple of weeks. And so I have now slept more. But it’s, it’s, in a sense, it’s the wrong kind of sleep, or at least it was a reactive sleep, it’s like, well, you have to do now, you know, your body takes over? Well, you know, you didn’t make the choice, we’ll make it for you.


Greg McKeown  24:01  

Well, and you know, we have to listen to our bodies, and so good for you for listening to your body. And, you know, I think one of the things that we have to consider as we think about what we’ve been talking about is an NS people listening considers, you know, to be gentle on ourselves, right? That there is a lot coming out a lot of people right now. And I think that inside of all of these things that we’re talking about, when we lean into maybe a little bit of change, right? Maybe maybe, maybe you’ve heard something maybe people listening say I am going to try that I’m gonna do that. And you don’t maybe it works and maybe you fall off for a second. Again, right sort of that clarity and that intentionality but being gentle on ourselves as we try to make changes because what we know is that when we make changes in our lives, it’s going to be hit with some resistance. But if We’re clear enough if we know it matters, if we want it bad enough, that shift that we’re trying to make them, the challenges along the way, the speed bumps, the hurdles the hiccups. You want to go over them, right? You want to go through it anyway. I mean, you know, Greg, I was a female sports agent. I mean, there wasn’t any other female sports agents at that time, right. So I was met with a lot of resistance initially. But I believed enough. And I wanted it enough, right, that I that, that the speed bumps were just sort of there. But I was also gentle on myself along the way. And I think we need to keep that front and center to us, we make shifts in our lives.

And now let’s just take a moment for an ad break.

And now, back to our conversation. I recently ran a workshop with top leaders of major company, and I had them answer the question, what’s the most important thing you need to do today? And then I just asked them to write down why does that matter? Why does that matter? And why does that matter? So three levels of why. And I did it at the same time so that I could have the same experience. And my most important thing for that day was to get home to my family, safely and well-rested. That was the goal. And then when I got to the whys, I found myself tapping into surprisingly deep answers. And it really did ground me in understanding, again, renewing again, why sleep is so essential. It’s not just a nice to have, it’s not just well, you know, you’re you just generally make better decisions? Of course, you do. It’s not just when you have a better quality of life, which of course you do, it’s because I will, what I wrote down was, I will miss what matters most. I will miss the moment. And so without any deliberate attempt within me, it just became obvious that I needed to have a goal to make up 100 hours of sleep before the end of the year. You know, just like that just needs to happen. And it didn’t feel like I had to force something there, I didn’t even feel like I was really trying to generate a goal. It just became self-evident that if I could make up an hour of sleep per day, between now and the end of the year, then I wouldn’t miss what mattered most. So it connected for me in a deeper way. A lot of people, I think get trapped in nonessential activity because they believe that life is this false dichotomy between a polite, yes, on the one hand, or a rude No, on the other. And the breakthrough is where you discover that life is a negotiation, that there’s this third very rich, broad category. And I’m just curious, given that you’ve spent, let’s say, half a lifetime, in the role of an agent operating at really the highest levels. Nicole negotiating, constantly negotiating on behalf of other people. But nevertheless, what lessons have you learned there that are portable, specific tactical things that the rest of us can do in our negotiations to make sure that we negotiate enough time to have enough energy to be able to do the things that matter? Most negotiation tips that are portable, for people to deploy in their own lives? Is what I’m hearing you say?


Molly Fletcher  29:05  

Yes. You know, I did, um, I negotiated about a half a billion in deals and did it every day, as you can imagine, with these with these athletes. You know, I would say a couple things. One is, I think one of the biggest mistakes people make with negotiation is they spend a lot of energy and time thinking about planning for worrying about preparing what they want, what they want, what matters most to them, all the terms, all the conditions, all the bone, whatever it might be, what they want. I think one of the biggest things that people can lift up and apply is get in the head in the heart of the person that you are negotiating with, what matters to them. What gaps do they have, how are you in fact close? Using those gaps. And you know, when I was negotiating a baseball player’s contract, yes, I wanted to spend time preparing for what we wanted. That’s critical. But I also wanted to say, Where’s the team’s payroll? Who do they have in the minor league system? Who’s on the free-agent market? Right? Who could they trade for? What’s the market look like for this role for this position. So getting your head and heart inside of the person that you’re negotiating with so that you can connect? You know, to me, negotiation is just a conversation? Now, it can be a difficult one. But that’s what it is. It’s a conversation. And so we know that conversations, it continues when we can act. So I would say, number one, take the time, and the energy to get clear on what matters most to the person that you’re negotiating with.


Greg McKeown  30:53  

How much of your work in negotiation, would you do ahead of time, let’s say proactive listening, where you’re doing research, and you’re thinking through their problems, and you’re thinking through what the priority is for them. And you’re writing that down as a sort of cheat sheet for the conversation? And how much is it just being present in the conversation? What ratio would you put on that?


Molly Fletcher  31:17  

I would say, it’s probably 40 60. 40, prep, 60, being present, listening, getting in their world, you know, really understanding what matters most to them. And, you know, one of the things I think is important to point out here, Greg, is that sometimes people think in a negotiation that it all has to happen in that one meeting. It has to happen right now. And it generally doesn’t. So what we can do if we prepare, but then we go in there, curious, right? Not defensive, but curious. And we really, really listen, then we can take that back. And again, sort of recalibrate, reboot, that we can maybe go back and we can listen, and we can learn and we can get in, and then we can go back. But I think one of the mistakes people make is they think I got to do it. All right. Now, I’ve got to come to terms right now. And in fact, to me, you don’t have to generally write particularly, by the way, if you’ve built a great relationship, if you’ve built a great foundation, if you’ve connected, then you’re going to be positioned where it’s not going to be a take it or leave it situation because there’s mutual respect, there’s a relationship there.


Greg McKeown  32:23  

What is some tangible things you would actually search for? Or write down? Or? Or do in preparation for the negotiation? Well, you know, a couple things. I mean, one is, you know, I would pull back and say, from a strategic perspective, what are the things that matter most to this person? From a logistical perspective? What matters most from a relational perspective? What matters most? I would identify sort of some of those kinds of categories. And I would pull back and say, what are the things that matter most to them around this? And I would spend a lot of time saying, how are they wired? Who are they what matters most to them, I had a general manager once that I was negotiating with and he was totally financially focused, right? Like that was all that mattered to him was I have $80 million on my payroll, how much is this guy gonna cost me whatever, he didn’t care that he was bringing up the young guys. And he was a leader in the clubhouse that he sold more jerseys than anybody else that he was in all started, he didn’t care about any of that. All they care about is how much it’s gonna cost me. So what I needed to know was what mattered most to him? So I think we’ve got to know what and what’s the wiring, if you will, right, just like we’re right or left-handed, just like we have personality styles. What’s the what’s the style, if you will, of the person that you’re negotiating with? And how do you get inside of that, and then begin to anticipate and lead with potentially, the things that matter most to them to drive connection?


Molly Fletcher  33:51  

Yeah, you just said something really great. That phrase, if this is what this relationship is going to look like, that’s what you’re really doing in a negotiation. You’re signaling to people what the relationship is going to look like. And yet, so often, we can be focused on winning this round, that we signal exactly the wrong kind of relationship, the kind of relationship people don’t really want to be in. And so changing that it moves it to a long game type conversation, but, but similarly, in our lives, in our negotiations with other people. It’s, it is I think, what you’re saying playing the long game, giving first, giving what’s valuable, disproportionately valuable to the other person might not even be expensive to you. But you if you understand what matters to them. This is one of the ways that real value is produced. It’s cheap for you. It’s valuable to them. That’s right.


Greg McKeown  34:54  

I mean, at some level, what we’re saying is be relational, not transactional.

Molly Fletcher, it has been a real pleasure to have this conversation today to explore how we can be smarter wiser about how we utilize our energy, so we have something in the tank to do what’s essential, but also these skills and these counterintuitive approaches in negotiating what matters most with the people who matter most. Thank you for being with us.


Molly Fletcher  35:27  

It’s a pleasure. I’m a big fan of your work. So thanks for having me. 


Greg McKeown  35:31  

Ladies and gentlemen, essentialist one end all we’ve come to that moment again, the end of the show. Thank you. Really, sincerely. Thank you for listening. It’s been amazing to see what’s happened already with this show just in the first year. It’s become the top five self-improvement podcast on Apple and within the top 10 in the education category, that’s really an amazing first year and you are the ones that have made it happen. Thank you, you’ve made it special. I want to end today’s show. With something that means a lot to me. And it’s this simple reminder, if you don’t prioritize your life, someone else will that matters. That is what’s essential.

Greg McKeown


  • Hosted by Greg McKeown
  • Produced by Greg McKeown Team
  • Executive Produced by Greg McKeown